From: rokimoto557@gmail.com   
      
   On 3/14/2025 5:50 PM, Martin Harran wrote:   
   > On Fri, 14 Mar 2025 14:28:44 -0500, RonO    
   > wrote:   
   >   
   >> On 3/14/2025 12:06 PM, Martin Harran wrote:   
   >>> On Fri, 14 Mar 2025 08:04:06 -0500, RonO    
   >>> wrote:   
   >>>   
   >>>> On 3/14/2025 3:23 AM, Martin Harran wrote:   
   >>>>> On Thu, 13 Mar 2025 10:02:21 -0500, RonO    
   >>>>> wrote:   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>>> On 3/13/2025 8:23 AM, Martin Harran wrote:   
   >>>>>>> On Wed, 12 Mar 2025 11:43:35 -0500, RonO    
   >>>>>>> wrote:   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>> On 3/12/2025 8:25 AM, Martin Harran wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>> On Tue, 11 Mar 2025 13:06:43 -0500, RonO    
   >>>>>>>>> wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>> On 3/11/2025 12:21 PM, Martin Harran wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 11 Mar 2025 09:21:24 -0500, RonO    
   >>>>>>>>>>> wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/11/2025 5:06 AM, Martin Harran wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 10 Mar 2025 17:20:56 -0500, RonO    
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> [...]   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> They are still not abiding by   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Saint Augustine's admonishment about not using the Bible to   
   make claims   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> about what we can determine for ourselves about nature, so my   
   guess is   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> that their efforts can still fail to represent nature accurately   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> depending on how consistent with the Bible that they want to be.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> They are NOT in any way contradicting Saint Augustine's   
   admonishment,   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> they are following it perfectly.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> If you think differently then like MarkE, you haven't properly   
   grasped   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> the meaning of what St Augustine meant.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> They are trying to force biological evolution into conforming   
   with their   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> Biblical interpretation.  As such what are they missing about   
   biological   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> evolution?  Some of them are denying that natural mechanisms were   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> involved in some of that evolution.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>> Please give an example of that.   
   >>>>>>>>> ?   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>> You SNIPed it out.   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>> There is nothing in what I snipped that shows anyone denying that   
   >>>>>>>>> natural mechanisms were involved in evolution. On the contrary, as   
   >>>>>>>>> quoted by you from their website, they define one of their core   
   values   
   >>>>>>>>> as affirming the established findings of modern science. Are you   
   >>>>>>>>> calling them liars?   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>> That obviously is not true.  Did you actually read what you snipped   
   out?   
   >>>>>>>>      What were their other core values?   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> Here is exactly what you posted from their site earlier::   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> ====================================   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> QUOTE:   
   >>>>>>> Evolutionary Creation (EC) is a Christian position on origins. It   
   >>>>>>> takes   
   >>>>>>> the Bible seriously as the inspired and authoritative word of God, and   
   >>>>>>> it takes science seriously as a way of understanding the world God has   
   >>>>>>> made. EC includes two basic ideas. First, that God created all things,   
   >>>>>>> including human beings in his own image. Second, that evolution is the   
   >>>>>>> best scientific explanation we currently have for the diversity and   
   >>>>>>> similarities of all life on Earth.   
   >>>>>>> END QUOTE:   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> QUOTE:   
   >>>>>>> The Identity of BioLogos   
   >>>>>>> Core Values   
   >>>>>>> Christ-centered Faith - We embrace the historical Christian faith,   
   >>>>>>> upholding the authority and inspiration of the Bible.   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> Rigorous Science - We affirm the established findings of modern   
   >>>>>>> science,   
   >>>>>>> celebrating the wonders of God's creation.   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> Gracious Dialogue - We strive for humble and thoughtful dialogue with   
   >>>>>>> those who hold other views, speaking the truth in love.   
   >>>>>>> END QUOTE:   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> ===============================================   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> Where in that are they are denying that natural mechanisms were   
   >>>>>>> involved in some of that evolution?   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> They are like Behe and claiming that their god is needed to do a   
   >>>>>> specific thing that they claim the Bible tells them so.   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> What do you not get?  The reasoning is no different from Behe claiming   
   >>>>>> that some god is needed to create the flagellum.   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>> They obviously have other feelings   
   >>>>>>>> about what are not "established findings of modern science."   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> So what does it matter what they think about things outside of   
   >>>>>>> science, how is that contradicting science?   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> They are claiming that their understanding of science can be made to   
   >>>>>> conform to their literal interpretations of the Bible.  It is the same   
   >>>>>> claim that the ID perps make except they agree that biological evolution   
   >>>>>> is a fact of nature.  Some of them still think like Behe.   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>> Not only   
      
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