[continued from previous message]   
      
   >>> claim.  They claim to be Biblical literalists that believe that miracles   
   >>> apply in the past and present.  I do not know how you can stick with   
   >>> your denial when these guys are as bad as Behe in their claims of their   
   >>> god doing something.  Not just making specific claims like creating   
   >>> humans in their god's image, but claiming supernatural miracles in order   
   >>> to do it.  Even Behe doesn't claim supernatural miracles, he just claims   
   >>> that he doesn't know how design was done.  There is no scientific   
   >>> evidence for their literalist belief.  These guys have set themselves up   
   >>> to continue the ID perp's denial about human evolution.  They are going   
   >>> to be stuck with the same science denial that the ID perps have been   
   >>> using against biological evolution doing what it obviously has done   
   >>> during the evolution of humans from the last single celled common   
   >>> ancestor of extant life on this planet.  That really is the only way   
   >>> that they have to demonstrate that their god was needed.  They want   
   >>> their god to have been involved in the process, but they do not have any   
   >>> positive evidence for such a claim.  They are going to be looking for   
   >>> the same impossible evolution that Behe has always claimed exists.   
   >>>   
   >>> Ron Okimoto   
   >>>   
   >>>>   
   >>>>   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> Ron Okimoto   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> You claimed that in their core values, they deny that natural   
   >>>>>> mechanisms were ninvolved in evolution. They don't.   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> You claimed that their site supports "tweekers" but you can't say   
   >>>>>> where.   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> You even try to argue that their views on things that are not   
   >>>>>> "established findings of modern science" are somehow a rejection of   
   >>>>>> science.   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> You have absolutely nothing to support your attacks on Biologos except   
   >>>>>> your own febrile imagination, driven by your phobia that all   
   >>>>>> "creationists" are the same, that there is no real difference between   
   >>>>>> Southern Evangelicals and  Catholics and Anglicans and other   
   >>>>>> mainstream religions, that they all reject science.   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>> Ron Okimoto   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> That is exactly what Saint   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> Augustine warned against doing.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> This is just the next stage of science denial that some of them   
   will use   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> their acceptance of some of the science to cover up.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> That is pure conjecture on your part.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>> It is what some of them are already doing.  Some have given up on   
   the   
   >>>>>>>>>>> science denial, but some are still looking for what they need to   
   fit   
   >>>>>>>>>>> their god into what has happened in nature.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>> If they had given up on the science denial that Saint Ausgustine   
   warned   
   >>>>>>>>>>> Christians about, it would not matter how biological evolution fit   
   into   
   >>>>>>>>>>> their literal interpretation of the Bible.   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>> Funny how you can't give even one specific example of such denial.   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> Some of them   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> likely have deistic notions like Denton, and do not require any   
   designer   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> interference with evolution, but some of them are tweekers like   
   Behe,   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> and still remain under Saint Augustine's admonishment.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> More conjecture on your part. Unless of course you can provide   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> specific examples.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>> They admit to it on their web site.   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>> Where on their web site do they admit it?   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>> Some of them are still tweekers   
   >>>>>>>>>>> like Behe, and would be the same type of science denier as Behe is.   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>> Yet again, you can't give a single specific example.   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>> In order to abide by Saint Augustine's admonishment they wouldn't   
   need to   
   >>>>>>>>>>> limit biological evolution due to their Biblical beliefs.  They   
   claim   
   >>>>>>>>>>> that their god made humans in his own image using biological   
   evolution..   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>> You do understand that there is a theological debate about what   
   "in his   
   >>>>>>>>>>> image" means, right?  So what literal belief are they supporting   
   and   
   >>>>>>>>>>> should they even be trying to support any of the interpretations?    
   Which   
   >>>>>>>>>>> Biblical beliefs are they willing to falsify using science?   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>> The reason you can't give any specific examples is that you are   
   >>>>>>>>>> presenting their case upside down. They are not trying to *force*   
   any   
   >>>>>>>>>> science into anything; to the extent that they are *forcing*   
   anything,   
   >>>>>>>>>> they are forcing their traditional Bible interpretation into   
   >>>>>>>>>> accommodating what science tells us.   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>> St Augustine would undoubtedly have heartily endorsed what they are   
   >>>>>>>>>> doing.   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>> Ron Okimoto   
   >>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> These creationists are claiming that some of the existing   
   science is   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> consistent with their Biblical interpretation, but it is not   
   consistent   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> with what other creationists believe.  If we rewrote the Bible   
   today   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> with our current understanding of cosmology we would still be   
   wrong   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> about some things, and they would have to be rewritten at some   
   later   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> date.  Saint Augustine's admonishment makes it unnecessary to   
   rewrite or   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> reinterpret the Bible.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> Ron Okimoto   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>   
   >>   
      
   --- SoupGate-DOS v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)