From: martinharran@gmail.com   
      
   On Sun, 16 Mar 2025 08:42:49 -0500, RonO    
   wrote:   
      
   >On 3/15/2025 11:06 PM, Martin Harran wrote:   
   >> On Sat, 15 Mar 2025 07:02:16 -0500, RonO    
   >> wrote:   
   >>   
   >>> On 3/14/2025 5:50 PM, Martin Harran wrote:   
   >>>> On Fri, 14 Mar 2025 14:28:44 -0500, RonO    
   >>>> wrote:   
   >>>>   
   >>>>> On 3/14/2025 12:06 PM, Martin Harran wrote:   
   >>>>>> On Fri, 14 Mar 2025 08:04:06 -0500, RonO    
   >>>>>> wrote:   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> On 3/14/2025 3:23 AM, Martin Harran wrote:   
   >>>>>>>> On Thu, 13 Mar 2025 10:02:21 -0500, RonO    
   >>>>>>>> wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>> On 3/13/2025 8:23 AM, Martin Harran wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 12 Mar 2025 11:43:35 -0500, RonO    
   >>>>>>>>>> wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>> On 3/12/2025 8:25 AM, Martin Harran wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 11 Mar 2025 13:06:43 -0500, RonO    
   >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/11/2025 12:21 PM, Martin Harran wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 11 Mar 2025 09:21:24 -0500, RonO    
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/11/2025 5:06 AM, Martin Harran wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 10 Mar 2025 17:20:56 -0500, RonO    
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [...]   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> They are still not abiding by   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Saint Augustine's admonishment about not using the Bible to   
   make claims   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about what we can determine for ourselves about nature, so   
   my guess is   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that their efforts can still fail to represent nature   
   accurately   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> depending on how consistent with the Bible that they want to   
   be.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> They are NOT in any way contradicting Saint Augustine's   
   admonishment,   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they are following it perfectly.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you think differently then like MarkE, you haven't   
   properly grasped   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the meaning of what St Augustine meant.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> They are trying to force biological evolution into conforming   
   with their   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Biblical interpretation.  As such what are they missing about   
   biological   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> evolution?  Some of them are denying that natural mechanisms   
   were   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> involved in some of that evolution.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Please give an example of that.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> ?   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> You SNIPed it out.   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> There is nothing in what I snipped that shows anyone denying that   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> natural mechanisms were involved in evolution. On the contrary, as   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> quoted by you from their website, they define one of their core   
   values   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> as affirming the established findings of modern science. Are you   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> calling them liars?   
   >>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>> That obviously is not true.  Did you actually read what you   
   snipped out?   
   >>>>>>>>>>>       What were their other core values?   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>> Here is exactly what you posted from their site earlier::   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>> ====================================   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>> QUOTE:   
   >>>>>>>>>> Evolutionary Creation (EC) is a Christian position on origins. It   
   >>>>>>>>>> takes   
   >>>>>>>>>> the Bible seriously as the inspired and authoritative word of God,   
   and   
   >>>>>>>>>> it takes science seriously as a way of understanding the world God   
   has   
   >>>>>>>>>> made. EC includes two basic ideas. First, that God created all   
   things,   
   >>>>>>>>>> including human beings in his own image. Second, that evolution is   
   the   
   >>>>>>>>>> best scientific explanation we currently have for the diversity and   
   >>>>>>>>>> similarities of all life on Earth.   
   >>>>>>>>>> END QUOTE:   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>> QUOTE:   
   >>>>>>>>>> The Identity of BioLogos   
   >>>>>>>>>> Core Values   
   >>>>>>>>>> Christ-centered Faith - We embrace the historical Christian faith,   
   >>>>>>>>>> upholding the authority and inspiration of the Bible.   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>> Rigorous Science - We affirm the established findings of modern   
   >>>>>>>>>> science,   
   >>>>>>>>>> celebrating the wonders of God's creation.   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>> Gracious Dialogue - We strive for humble and thoughtful dialogue   
   with   
   >>>>>>>>>> those who hold other views, speaking the truth in love.   
   >>>>>>>>>> END QUOTE:   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>> ===============================================   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>> Where in that are they are denying that natural mechanisms were   
   >>>>>>>>>> involved in some of that evolution?   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>> They are like Behe and claiming that their god is needed to do a   
   >>>>>>>>> specific thing that they claim the Bible tells them so.   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>> What do you not get?  The reasoning is no different from Behe   
   claiming   
   >>>>>>>>> that some god is needed to create the flagellum.   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>> They obviously have other feelings   
   >>>>>>>>>>> about what are not "established findings of modern science."   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>> So what does it matter what they think about things outside of   
   >>>>>>>>>> science, how is that contradicting science?   
   >>>>>>>>>   
      
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