[continued from previous message]   
      
   >>>> designer is recreating lifeforms to make it look like they are still   
   >>>> evolving.  Science can't support those claims, and they are subject to   
   >>>> the same denial that Behe and the Reason to Believe creationists have to   
   >>>> maintain.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> Ron Okimoto   
   >>>>   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> They claim to believe that evolution was used by their god to create   
   >>>>>> humans in their god's image.  That is a specific Biblical literalist   
   >>>>>> claim.  They claim to be Biblical literalists that believe that miracles   
   >>>>>> apply in the past and present.  I do not know how you can stick with   
   >>>>>> your denial when these guys are as bad as Behe in their claims of their   
   >>>>>> god doing something.  Not just making specific claims like creating   
   >>>>>> humans in their god's image, but claiming supernatural miracles in order   
   >>>>>> to do it.  Even Behe doesn't claim supernatural miracles, he just claims   
   >>>>>> that he doesn't know how design was done.  There is no scientific   
   >>>>>> evidence for their literalist belief.  These guys have set themselves up   
   >>>>>> to continue the ID perp's denial about human evolution.  They are going   
   >>>>>> to be stuck with the same science denial that the ID perps have been   
   >>>>>> using against biological evolution doing what it obviously has done   
   >>>>>> during the evolution of humans from the last single celled common   
   >>>>>> ancestor of extant life on this planet.  That really is the only way   
   >>>>>> that they have to demonstrate that their god was needed.  They want   
   >>>>>> their god to have been involved in the process, but they do not have any   
   >>>>>> positive evidence for such a claim.  They are going to be looking for   
   >>>>>> the same impossible evolution that Behe has always claimed exists.   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> Ron Okimoto   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>> Ron Okimoto   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>> You claimed that in their core values, they deny that natural   
   >>>>>>>>> mechanisms were ninvolved in evolution. They don't.   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>> You claimed that their site supports "tweekers" but you can't say   
   >>>>>>>>> where.   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>> You even try to argue that their views on things that are not   
   >>>>>>>>> "established findings of modern science" are somehow a rejection of   
   >>>>>>>>> science.   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>> You have absolutely nothing to support your attacks on Biologos   
   except   
   >>>>>>>>> your own febrile imagination, driven by your phobia that all   
   >>>>>>>>> "creationists" are the same, that there is no real difference between   
   >>>>>>>>> Southern Evangelicals and  Catholics and Anglicans and other   
   >>>>>>>>> mainstream religions, that they all reject science.   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> Ron Okimoto   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That is exactly what Saint   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Augustine warned against doing.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is just the next stage of science denial that some of   
   them will use   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> their acceptance of some of the science to cover up.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That is pure conjecture on your part.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> It is what some of them are already doing.  Some have given up   
   on the   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> science denial, but some are still looking for what they need   
   to fit   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> their god into what has happened in nature.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> If they had given up on the science denial that Saint   
   Ausgustine warned   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Christians about, it would not matter how biological evolution   
   fit into   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> their literal interpretation of the Bible.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> Funny how you can't give even one specific example of such   
   denial.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Some of them   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> likely have deistic notions like Denton, and do not require   
   any designer   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interference with evolution, but some of them are tweekers   
   like Behe,   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and still remain under Saint Augustine's admonishment.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> More conjecture on your part. Unless of course you can provide   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> specific examples.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> They admit to it on their web site.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> Where on their web site do they admit it?   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Some of them are still tweekers   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> like Behe, and would be the same type of science denier as Behe   
   is.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> Yet again, you can't give a single specific example.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> In order to abide by Saint Augustine's admonishment they   
   wouldn't need to   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> limit biological evolution due to their Biblical beliefs.  They   
   claim   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> that their god made humans in his own image using biological   
   evolution..   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> You do understand that there is a theological debate about what   
   "in his   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> image" means, right?  So what literal belief are they   
   supporting and   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> should they even be trying to support any of the    
   nterpretations?  Which   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Biblical beliefs are they willing to falsify using science?   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> The reason you can't give any specific examples is that you are   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> presenting their case upside down. They are not trying to   
   *force* any   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> science into anything; to the extent that they are *forcing*   
   anything,   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> they are forcing their traditional Bible interpretation into   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> accommodating what science tells us.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> St Augustine would undoubtedly have heartily endorsed what they   
   are   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> doing.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ron Okimoto   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> These creationists are claiming that some of the existing   
   science is   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> consistent with their Biblical interpretation, but it is not   
   consistent   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with what other creationists believe.  If we rewrote the   
   Bible today   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with our current understanding of cosmology we would still be   
   wrong   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about some things, and they would have to be rewritten at   
   some later   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> date.  Saint Augustine's admonishment makes it unnecessary to   
   rewrite or   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reinterpret the Bible.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ron Okimoto   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>   
   >>>   
   >   
      
   --- SoupGate-DOS v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)