[continued from previous message]   
      
   >>>>> source said about heliocentrism being a heresy, but it is the same type   
   >>>>> of lame denial.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> Yeah, the post where you made yourself out to understand Catholic   
   >>>> teaching better than the Catholic Church itself and you rejected the   
   >>>> views of respected historians and researchers in favour of a guy   
   >>>> promoting geocentrism. I'm surprised you want to remind people of that   
   >>>> piece of idiocy.   
   >>>>   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> Really, some of them believe that their god was active in the past, and   
   >>>>> active today with "miracles".  You know that they flat out make the   
   >>>>> literalist claim that their god made humans in his own image.  They are   
   >>>>> tweekers like Behe.  They believe that their god is still active today   
   >>>>> just like the Reason To Believe creationists are claiming that their   
   >>>>> designer is recreating lifeforms to make it look like they are still   
   >>>>> evolving.  Science can't support those claims, and they are subject to   
   >>>>> the same denial that Behe and the Reason to Believe creationists have to   
   >>>>> maintain.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> Ron Okimoto   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> They claim to believe that evolution was used by their god to create   
   >>>>>>> humans in their god's image.  That is a specific Biblical literalist   
   >>>>>>> claim.  They claim to be Biblical literalists that believe that   
   miracles   
   >>>>>>> apply in the past and present.  I do not know how you can stick with   
   >>>>>>> your denial when these guys are as bad as Behe in their claims of their   
   >>>>>>> god doing something.  Not just making specific claims like creating   
   >>>>>>> humans in their god's image, but claiming supernatural miracles in   
   order   
   >>>>>>> to do it.  Even Behe doesn't claim supernatural miracles, he just   
   claims   
   >>>>>>> that he doesn't know how design was done.  There is no scientific   
   >>>>>>> evidence for their literalist belief.  These guys have set themselves   
   up   
   >>>>>>> to continue the ID perp's denial about human evolution.  They are going   
   >>>>>>> to be stuck with the same science denial that the ID perps have been   
   >>>>>>> using against biological evolution doing what it obviously has done   
   >>>>>>> during the evolution of humans from the last single celled common   
   >>>>>>> ancestor of extant life on this planet.  That really is the only way   
   >>>>>>> that they have to demonstrate that their god was needed.  They want   
   >>>>>>> their god to have been involved in the process, but they do not have   
   any   
   >>>>>>> positive evidence for such a claim.  They are going to be looking for   
   >>>>>>> the same impossible evolution that Behe has always claimed exists.   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> Ron Okimoto   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>> Ron Okimoto   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>> You claimed that in their core values, they deny that natural   
   >>>>>>>>>> mechanisms were ninvolved in evolution. They don't.   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>> You claimed that their site supports "tweekers" but you can't say   
   >>>>>>>>>> where.   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>> You even try to argue that their views on things that are not   
   >>>>>>>>>> "established findings of modern science" are somehow a rejection of   
   >>>>>>>>>> science.   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>> You have absolutely nothing to support your attacks on Biologos   
   except   
   >>>>>>>>>> your own febrile imagination, driven by your phobia that all   
   >>>>>>>>>> "creationists" are the same, that there is no real difference   
   between   
   >>>>>>>>>> Southern Evangelicals and  Catholics and Anglicans and other   
   >>>>>>>>>> mainstream religions, that they all reject science.   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> Ron Okimoto   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That is exactly what Saint   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Augustine warned against doing.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is just the next stage of science denial that some of   
   them will use   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> their acceptance of some of the science to cover up.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That is pure conjecture on your part.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It is what some of them are already doing.  Some have given up   
   on the   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> science denial, but some are still looking for what they need   
   to fit   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> their god into what has happened in nature.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If they had given up on the science denial that Saint   
   Ausgustine warned   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Christians about, it would not matter how biological evolution   
   fit into   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> their literal interpretation of the Bible.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Funny how you can't give even one specific example of such   
   denial.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Some of them   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> likely have deistic notions like Denton, and do not require   
   any designer   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interference with evolution, but some of them are tweekers   
   like Behe,   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and still remain under Saint Augustine's admonishment.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> More conjecture on your part. Unless of course you can provide   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> specific examples.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> They admit to it on their web site.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where on their web site do they admit it?   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Some of them are still tweekers   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like Behe, and would be the same type of science denier as   
   Behe is.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yet again, you can't give a single specific example.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In order to abide by Saint Augustine's admonishment they   
   wouldn't need to   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> limit biological evolution due to their Biblical beliefs.    
   They claim   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that their god made humans in his own image using biological   
   evolution..   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You do understand that there is a theological debate about   
   what "in his   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> image" means, right?  So what literal belief are they   
   supporting and   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> should they even be trying to support any of the   
   interpretations?  Which   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Biblical beliefs are they willing to falsify using science?   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> The reason you can't give any specific examples is that you are   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> presenting their case upside down. They are not trying to   
   *force* any   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> science into anything; to the extent that they are *forcing*   
   anything,   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> they are forcing their traditional Bible interpretation into   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> accommodating what science tells us.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> St Augustine would undoubtedly have heartily endorsed what they   
   are   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> doing.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ron Okimoto   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> These creationists are claiming that some of the existing   
   science is   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> consistent with their Biblical interpretation, but it is not   
   consistent   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with what other creationists believe.  If we rewrote the   
   Bible today   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with our current understanding of cosmology we would still   
   be wrong   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about some things, and they would have to be rewritten at   
   some later   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> date.  Saint Augustine's admonishment makes it unnecessary   
   to rewrite or   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reinterpret the Bible.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ron Okimoto   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>   
      
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   --- SoupGate-DOS v1.05   
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