[continued from previous message]   
      
   >> be tweekers like Ken Miller who believes that his god might have   
   >> manipulated natural processes (he called it jiggling atoms) to make   
   >> biological evolution come out the way it has, but others are probably   
   >> like Behe and believe it was done with puffs of smoke.   
   >>   
   >> There is no reason to continue to lie about this.   
   >>   
   >> Ron Okimoto   
   >>   
   >>>   
   >>>>   
   >>>> I just took these reposts right out of this post, so the formating may   
   >>>> be messed up.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> You ran from the las quotes and started your lame denial.  These guys   
   >>>> are tweekers (They believe that their god created with miracles).  They   
   >>>> are no different than Behe in his claim that his god tweeked the   
   >>>> flagellum into existence.  They are claiming that their god made humans   
   >>>> in his own image, and that miracles were involved.  Behe never says how   
   >>>> his god did it, but these guys do (supernatural miracles).  The closest   
   >>>> Behe ever came to that, was his "puffs of smoke" admission.  All they   
   >>>> have are Behe's denial type claims to support their beliefs.  Probably   
   >>>> all of the ID perps also believe that their god made man in his own   
   >>>> image, and their human exceptionalism stupidity is the result of that   
   >>>> belief.  The Discovery Institute made human exceptionalism a full   
   >>>> departement of it's own at one point.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> I just looked it up and it is still claimed to be The Center on Human   
   >>>> Exceptionalism.   
   >>>> https://humanexceptionalism.center/   
   >>>>   
   >>>> It is junk that the ID perps claim supports intelligent design of   
   >>>> humans.  They believe that human exceptionalism supports their religious   
   >>>> beliefs of their god making man in his own image.  The ID perps use the   
   >>>> arguments to claim that there are things that biological evolution   
   >>>> cannot do.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> You should have never run from the material and started lying.  Claiming   
   >>>> that you want me to requote the material is just stupid when it is still   
   >>>> in this post.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> Ron Okimoto   
   >>>>   
   >>>>   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> Why keep saying that there is something there when nobody else can see   
   >>>>> it? Do you not realise how much of an idiot it is making you?   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> I will admit that this isn't as bad as you denying what your own trusted   
   >>>>>> source said about heliocentrism being a heresy, but it is the same type   
   >>>>>> of lame denial.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> Yeah, the post where you made yourself out to understand Catholic   
   >>>>> teaching better than the Catholic Church itself and you rejected the   
   >>>>> views of respected historians and researchers in favour of a guy   
   >>>>> promoting geocentrism. I'm surprised you want to remind people of that   
   >>>>> piece of idiocy.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> Really, some of them believe that their god was active in the past, and   
   >>>>>> active today with "miracles".  You know that they flat out make the   
   >>>>>> literalist claim that their god made humans in his own image.  They are   
   >>>>>> tweekers like Behe.  They believe that their god is still active today   
   >>>>>> just like the Reason To Believe creationists are claiming that their   
   >>>>>> designer is recreating lifeforms to make it look like they are still   
   >>>>>> evolving.  Science can't support those claims, and they are subject to   
   >>>>>> the same denial that Behe and the Reason to Believe creationists have to   
   >>>>>> maintain.   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> Ron Okimoto   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>> They claim to believe that evolution was used by their god to create   
   >>>>>>>> humans in their god's image.  That is a specific Biblical literalist   
   >>>>>>>> claim.  They claim to be Biblical literalists that believe that   
   miracles   
   >>>>>>>> apply in the past and present.  I do not know how you can stick with   
   >>>>>>>> your denial when these guys are as bad as Behe in their claims of   
   their   
   >>>>>>>> god doing something.  Not just making specific claims like creating   
   >>>>>>>> humans in their god's image, but claiming supernatural miracles in   
   order   
   >>>>>>>> to do it.  Even Behe doesn't claim supernatural miracles, he just   
   claims   
   >>>>>>>> that he doesn't know how design was done.  There is no scientific   
   >>>>>>>> evidence for their literalist belief.  These guys have set themselves   
   up   
   >>>>>>>> to continue the ID perp's denial about human evolution.  They are   
   going   
   >>>>>>>> to be stuck with the same science denial that the ID perps have been   
   >>>>>>>> using against biological evolution doing what it obviously has done   
   >>>>>>>> during the evolution of humans from the last single celled common   
   >>>>>>>> ancestor of extant life on this planet.  That really is the only way   
   >>>>>>>> that they have to demonstrate that their god was needed.  They want   
   >>>>>>>> their god to have been involved in the process, but they do not have   
   any   
   >>>>>>>> positive evidence for such a claim.  They are going to be looking for   
   >>>>>>>> the same impossible evolution that Behe has always claimed exists.   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>> Ron Okimoto   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>> Ron Okimoto   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>> You claimed that in their core values, they deny that natural   
   >>>>>>>>>>> mechanisms were ninvolved in evolution. They don't.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>> You claimed that their site supports "tweekers" but you can't say   
   >>>>>>>>>>> where.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>> You even try to argue that their views on things that are not   
   >>>>>>>>>>> "established findings of modern science" are somehow a rejection of   
   >>>>>>>>>>> science.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>> You have absolutely nothing to support your attacks on Biologos   
   except   
   >>>>>>>>>>> your own febrile imagination, driven by your phobia that all   
   >>>>>>>>>>> "creationists" are the same, that there is no real difference   
   between   
   >>>>>>>>>>> Southern Evangelicals and  Catholics and Anglicans and other   
   >>>>>>>>>>> mainstream religions, that they all reject science.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ron Okimoto   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That is exactly what Saint   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Augustine warned against doing.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is just the next stage of science denial that some of   
   them will use   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> their acceptance of some of the science to cover up.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That is pure conjecture on your part.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It is what some of them are already doing.  Some have given   
   up on the   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> science denial, but some are still looking for what they need   
   to fit   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> their god into what has happened in nature.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If they had given up on the science denial that Saint   
   Ausgustine warned   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Christians about, it would not matter how biological   
   evolution fit into   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> their literal interpretation of the Bible.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Funny how you can't give even one specific example of such   
   denial.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Some of them   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> likely have deistic notions like Denton, and do not require   
   any designer   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interference with evolution, but some of them are tweekers   
   like Behe,   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and still remain under Saint Augustine's admonishment.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
      
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    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)