[continued from previous message]   
      
   >>>>>>> 1615-1616 (the anti-geocentric Catholic source, the conservative   
   >>>>>>> Catholic source, and the geocentric wiki).  The conservative Catholic   
   >>>>>>> source claimed that it was also a formal heresy when Galileo faced the   
   >>>>>>> charges the second time with papal involvement.  The other two sources   
   >>>>>>> noted that it was only claimed to have been a heresy in the sentencing,   
   >>>>>>> and the word formal had been omitted.  The anti-geocentric site claimed   
   >>>>>>> that the 1616 inquisition judgement had not been accepted by the later   
   >>>>>>> court, but then they also tried to claim that the sentencing had been   
   >>>>>>> poorly written, and that Galileo had actually been found guilty of   
   >>>>>>> breaking his oath to the 1616 inquisition.  This would mean that the   
   >>>>>>> later court had accepted the 1616 inquisition judgement.   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> The Catholic church still has geocentric creationists like Pagano   
   >>>>>>> because they claim that heliocentrism is still a heresy, and that it   
   has   
   >>>>>>> never been negated as a heresy.  The anti-geocentric site put up the   
   >>>>>>> 1822 Papal decree that removed heliocentrism from all banned lists, and   
   >>>>>>> that it could be used to tell time and calculate celestial movements.   
   >>>>>>> The geocentric catholics claim is that heliocentrism did not stop being   
   >>>>>>> a heresy because there were still restrictions placed on what could be   
   >>>>>>> published about it.  These restrictions were not stated in the decree,   
   >>>>>>> just that you had to consult the proper church officer.  A site that I   
   >>>>>>> put up years ago claimed that this decree just set things back to what   
   >>>>>>> was in place due to the Council of Trent, before heliocentric   
   >>>>>>> publications were banned, and that heliocentrism could still not be   
   used   
   >>>>>>> in relation to the beliefs of the church fathers.  After the Council of   
   >>>>>>> Trent heliocentrism became a heresy because all the church fathers were   
   >>>>>>> geocentrists.  The anti-geocentric Catholic site agrees with what the   
   >>>>>>> Council of trent did, and even admit that heliocentrism was s formal   
   >>>>>>> heresy when Galileo first faced the charge in 1616.   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> Your stupidity about geocentrism is likely directly related to your   
   >>>>>>> stupidity and lies about the current topic.  You just can't accept   
   >>>>>>> reality for what it is, even if you have to deny what your own trusted   
   >>>>>>> source told you.   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> The Biologos creationists just claim what they claim.  You have to keep   
   >>>>>>> lying about it for your own stupid reasons.   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>> The Reason to   
   >>>>>>>>> Believe exIDiots claim that their designer only made it look like   
   >>>>>>>>> biological evolution happened and is still happening by "recreating"   
   new   
   >>>>>>>>> species just a little different from the previously existing species.   
   >>>>>>>>> It is so much like evolution that the new recreation can even   
   interbreed   
   >>>>>>>>> sometimes with the previously existing species.  None of the Biologos   
   >>>>>>>>> evolutionary creationists are likely that badly off, but they still   
   >>>>>>>>> claim that supernatural miracles were needed.   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>> Just admit that you have been lying, and quit lying.   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>> You really do need to grasp the idea that people disagreeing with your   
   >>>>>>>> ideas and opinions does not make them liars.   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> Just admit that you have been lying since you ran from the quotes the   
   >>>>>>> first time and started lying.  Nothing has changed.  The Biologos   
   >>>>>>> creationist claimed what they are quoted as claiming.  They are   
   biblical   
   >>>>>>> literalists that beileve that evolution is a fact of nature, but they   
   >>>>>>> believe in Biblical claims like their god making man in his own image,   
   >>>>>>> and they believe that this god used supernatural miracles in the   
   >>>>>>> creation and is still using supernatural miracles today.  The use of   
   >>>>>>> supernatural mechanisms is a denial of using natural mechanisms in   
   those   
   >>>>>>> cases by definition.  Natural mechanisms did not do what was   
   >>>>>>> accomplished by supernatural miracles.   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> Ron Okimoto   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>> You understood   
   >>>>>>>>> that you were lying when you ran from the quotes and started to lie,   
   and   
   >>>>>>>>> nothing has changed.  The quotes are what they are.  Just go up the   
   >>>>>>>>> thread and relive what you did.  Supernatural miracles are not   
   natural   
   >>>>>>>>> mechanisms for evolution.  They are denying that biological   
   evolution is   
   >>>>>>>>> due to natural processes because they are claiming that unnatural   
   >>>>>>>>> processes (supernatural miracles) were needed to do specific biblical   
   >>>>>>>>> literalist interpretations of what had to happen to evolve man in the   
   >>>>>>>>> image of their god.  This is no different from Behe's tweeker   
   designer   
   >>>>>>>>> claims.  Just because they understand that Behe's argument to support   
   >>>>>>>>> the tweeking is bogus, doesn't change the fact that they are tweekers   
   >>>>>>>>> too.  Behe needed supernatural miracles, but he wasn't as honest   
   about   
   >>>>>>>>> it as these guys are.   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>> Ron Okimoto   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>> when you know that I was always claiming that it was not all   
   >>>>>>>>>>> natural with their claim about taking the Bible literally, their   
   belief   
   >>>>>>>>>>> in supernatural miracles, and their belief that their god was   
   >>>>>>>>>>> manipulating nature in the past and still is.  They deny natural   
   >>>>>>>>>>> mechanisms as much as Behe when he claims that his god was needed   
   to   
   >>>>>>>>>>> evolve the flagellum, and these guys are claiming that their god   
   made   
   >>>>>>>>>>> man in his own image, a claim that they make due to their literal   
   >>>>>>>>>>> interpretation of the Bible.  Behe has never claimed how his   
   designer   
   >>>>>>>>>>> did it except for his off the cuff "puffs of smoke", but these   
   guys are   
   >>>>>>>>>>> outright claiming supernatural miracles.  Your lies were never   
   needed,   
   >>>>>>>>>>> and were only used because you couldn't deal with the reality that   
   some   
   >>>>>>>>>>> of these guys are tweekers like an ID perp such as Behe.   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>> [snip repetitive earlier posts]   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> I knew your pathetic screeching about people who disagree with you   
   >>>>>> being stupid and liars reminded me of someone. I've just been reading   
   >>>>>> about Trump calling the judge who overruled him a ""a Radical Left   
   >>>>>> Lunatic Judge". That's exactly who you are like, Donald Trump and I   
   >>>>>> guess that trying to have a reasoned debate with you is just like   
   >>>>>> trying to have one with him, a totally stupid waste of time so I guess   
   >>>>>> I have been stupid in that regard.   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> No counter to the fact that you have been lying about this issue since   
   >>>>> running from the quoted material.   
   >>>>   
   >>>>   
   >>>> What's the point when everything I have asked you to give an example   
   >>>> of, you have just ignored or handwaved away.   
   >>>   
   >>> Just dodges to keep lying.   
   >>>   
   >>>>   
   >>>> I asked you for an example of Biologos denying natural causes of   
   >>>> evolution. No example. (You eventually tried to weasel-word your way   
   >>>> out of it by saying you didn't claim they *literally* said it.)   
   >>>   
   >>> This was unnecessary, and you know it because they were claiming that   
   >>> supernatural miracles were involved.  Supernatural miracles are not   
      
   [continued in next message]   
      
   --- SoupGate-DOS v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)