[continued from previous message]   
      
   >>>>>>>> Why keep lying about the past.  It was you that could not even deal   
   with   
   >>>>>>>> what your trusted Catholic source claimed about heliocentrism being a   
   >>>>>>>> heresy.  The sources that I came up with also claimed that   
   heliocentrism   
   >>>>>>>> was a heresy both times Galileo faced the charges.  Three of them   
   agreed   
   >>>>>>>> that it was a formal heresy when Galileo first faced the charge in   
   >>>>>>>> 1615-1616 (the anti-geocentric Catholic source, the conservative   
   >>>>>>>> Catholic source, and the geocentric wiki).  The conservative Catholic   
   >>>>>>>> source claimed that it was also a formal heresy when Galileo faced the   
   >>>>>>>> charges the second time with papal involvement.  The other two sources   
   >>>>>>>> noted that it was only claimed to have been a heresy in the   
   sentencing,   
   >>>>>>>> and the word formal had been omitted.  The anti-geocentric site   
   claimed   
   >>>>>>>> that the 1616 inquisition judgement had not been accepted by the later   
   >>>>>>>> court, but then they also tried to claim that the sentencing had been   
   >>>>>>>> poorly written, and that Galileo had actually been found guilty of   
   >>>>>>>> breaking his oath to the 1616 inquisition.  This would mean that the   
   >>>>>>>> later court had accepted the 1616 inquisition judgement.   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>> The Catholic church still has geocentric creationists like Pagano   
   >>>>>>>> because they claim that heliocentrism is still a heresy, and that it   
   has   
   >>>>>>>> never been negated as a heresy.  The anti-geocentric site put up the   
   >>>>>>>> 1822 Papal decree that removed heliocentrism from all banned lists,   
   and   
   >>>>>>>> that it could be used to tell time and calculate celestial movements.   
   >>>>>>>> The geocentric catholics claim is that heliocentrism did not stop   
   being   
   >>>>>>>> a heresy because there were still restrictions placed on what could be   
   >>>>>>>> published about it.  These restrictions were not stated in the decree,   
   >>>>>>>> just that you had to consult the proper church officer.  A site that I   
   >>>>>>>> put up years ago claimed that this decree just set things back to what   
   >>>>>>>> was in place due to the Council of Trent, before heliocentric   
   >>>>>>>> publications were banned, and that heliocentrism could still not be   
   used   
   >>>>>>>> in relation to the beliefs of the church fathers.  After the Council   
   of   
   >>>>>>>> Trent heliocentrism became a heresy because all the church fathers   
   were   
   >>>>>>>> geocentrists.  The anti-geocentric Catholic site agrees with what the   
   >>>>>>>> Council of trent did, and even admit that heliocentrism was s formal   
   >>>>>>>> heresy when Galileo first faced the charge in 1616.   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>> Your stupidity about geocentrism is likely directly related to your   
   >>>>>>>> stupidity and lies about the current topic.  You just can't accept   
   >>>>>>>> reality for what it is, even if you have to deny what your own trusted   
   >>>>>>>> source told you.   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>> The Biologos creationists just claim what they claim.  You have to   
   keep   
   >>>>>>>> lying about it for your own stupid reasons.   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>> The Reason to   
   >>>>>>>>>> Believe exIDiots claim that their designer only made it look like   
   >>>>>>>>>> biological evolution happened and is still happening by   
   "recreating" new   
   >>>>>>>>>> species just a little different from the previously existing   
   species.   
   >>>>>>>>>> It is so much like evolution that the new recreation can even   
   interbreed   
   >>>>>>>>>> sometimes with the previously existing species.  None of the   
   Biologos   
   >>>>>>>>>> evolutionary creationists are likely that badly off, but they still   
   >>>>>>>>>> claim that supernatural miracles were needed.   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>> Just admit that you have been lying, and quit lying.   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>> You really do need to grasp the idea that people disagreeing with   
   your   
   >>>>>>>>> ideas and opinions does not make them liars.   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>> Just admit that you have been lying since you ran from the quotes the   
   >>>>>>>> first time and started lying.  Nothing has changed.  The Biologos   
   >>>>>>>> creationist claimed what they are quoted as claiming.  They are   
   biblical   
   >>>>>>>> literalists that beileve that evolution is a fact of nature, but they   
   >>>>>>>> believe in Biblical claims like their god making man in his own image,   
   >>>>>>>> and they believe that this god used supernatural miracles in the   
   >>>>>>>> creation and is still using supernatural miracles today.  The use of   
   >>>>>>>> supernatural mechanisms is a denial of using natural mechanisms in   
   those   
   >>>>>>>> cases by definition.  Natural mechanisms did not do what was   
   >>>>>>>> accomplished by supernatural miracles.   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>> Ron Okimoto   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>> You understood   
   >>>>>>>>>> that you were lying when you ran from the quotes and started to   
   lie, and   
   >>>>>>>>>> nothing has changed.  The quotes are what they are.  Just go up the   
   >>>>>>>>>> thread and relive what you did.  Supernatural miracles are not   
   natural   
   >>>>>>>>>> mechanisms for evolution.  They are denying that biological   
   evolution is   
   >>>>>>>>>> due to natural processes because they are claiming that unnatural   
   >>>>>>>>>> processes (supernatural miracles) were needed to do specific   
   biblical   
   >>>>>>>>>> literalist interpretations of what had to happen to evolve man in   
   the   
   >>>>>>>>>> image of their god.  This is no different from Behe's tweeker   
   designer   
   >>>>>>>>>> claims.  Just because they understand that Behe's argument to   
   support   
   >>>>>>>>>> the tweeking is bogus, doesn't change the fact that they are   
   tweekers   
   >>>>>>>>>> too.  Behe needed supernatural miracles, but he wasn't as honest   
   about   
   >>>>>>>>>> it as these guys are.   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>> Ron Okimoto   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> when you know that I was always claiming that it was not all   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> natural with their claim about taking the Bible literally, their   
   belief   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> in supernatural miracles, and their belief that their god was   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> manipulating nature in the past and still is.  They deny natural   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> mechanisms as much as Behe when he claims that his god was needed   
   to   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> evolve the flagellum, and these guys are claiming that their god   
   made   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> man in his own image, a claim that they make due to their literal   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> interpretation of the Bible.  Behe has never claimed how his   
   designer   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> did it except for his off the cuff "puffs of smoke", but these   
   guys are   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> outright claiming supernatural miracles.  Your lies were never   
   needed,   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> and were only used because you couldn't deal with the reality   
   that some   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> of these guys are tweekers like an ID perp such as Behe.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>> [snip repetitive earlier posts]   
   >>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> I knew your pathetic screeching about people who disagree with you   
   >>>>>>> being stupid and liars reminded me of someone. I've just been reading   
   >>>>>>> about Trump calling the judge who overruled him a ""a Radical Left   
   >>>>>>> Lunatic Judge". That's exactly who you are like, Donald Trump and I   
   >>>>>>> guess that trying to have a reasoned debate with you is just like   
   >>>>>>> trying to have one with him, a totally stupid waste of time so I guess   
   >>>>>>> I have been stupid in that regard.   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> No counter to the fact that you have been lying about this issue since   
   >>>>>> running from the quoted material.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>>   
      
   [continued in next message]   
      
   --- SoupGate-DOS v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)