From: rokimoto557@gmail.com   
      
   On 3/20/2025 1:18 PM, Martin Harran wrote:   
   > On Thu, 20 Mar 2025 13:02:23 -0500, RonO    
   > wrote:   
   >   
   >> On 3/20/2025 11:28 AM, Martin Harran wrote:   
   >>> On Wed, 19 Mar 2025 18:11:27 -0500, RonO    
   >>> wrote:   
   >>>   
   >>>> On 3/19/2025 3:36 PM, Martin Harran wrote:   
   >>>>>     And so the bullshit contuue to fly.n Wed, 19 Mar 2025 13:30:04 -0500,   
   >>>>> RonO  wrote:   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>>> On 3/19/2025 10:57 AM, Martin Harran wrote:   
   >>>>>>> On Wed, 19 Mar 2025 10:01:39 -0500, RonO    
   >>>>>>> wrote:   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>> On 3/19/2025 8:28 AM, Martin Harran wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>> On Wed, 19 Mar 2025 08:12:58 -0500, RonO    
   >>>>>>>>> wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>> On 3/19/2025 6:24 AM, Martin Harran wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 18 Mar 2025 17:32:39 -0500, RonO    
   >>>>>>>>>>> wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/18/2025 12:13 PM, Martin Harran wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 18 Mar 2025 08:41:05 -0500, RonO    
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/18/2025 3:02 AM, Martin Harran wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rOn Mon, 17 Mar 2025 12:42:09 -0500, RonO    
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> [Mercy snip]   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What does this matter?  You were still lying.  They aren't   
   literally   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> denying natural mechanisms   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So you have kept insisting that they deny that natural   
   mechanisms were   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> involved in evolution. Now you admit that they don't say that   
   but you   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> claim that I am the one who is lying. It's perfectly clear   
   that I have   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> been right all along, the claims you have been making about   
   them are   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all the products of your bullshit interpretation.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have never denied that, what I have always contended is that   
   they deny   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> that it was all natural.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> Let's get this perfectly clear, do you now agree that the stuff   
   you   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> are claiming about them is not what they actually say, it is what   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> think is the consequence of what they say?   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> Let's get this perfectly clear, you have lied about what I have   
   claimed   
   >>>>>>>>>>> >from the beginning.  They are Biblical literalists that claim   
   that their   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> god made man in his own image.  I have always claimed that they   
   are   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> theistic evolutionists.  Their own claims make them tweekers like   
   Behe.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> They claim that their god is using miracles and is actively   
   involved in   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> the creation, and still is actively involved today.  It isn't the   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> consequence of what they claim, it is what they claim.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> Why try to lie about "consequences" of what they claim?  It is   
   literally   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> what they are claiming.  You ran from the quotes, and now you are   
   just   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> lying about them again.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>> I didn't run from any quotes, on the contrary I endorsed them.   
   What I   
   >>>>>>>>>>> did was disagree with *your conclusions* which you tried to   
   present as   
   >>>>>>>>>>> some sort of established fact. You have this rather weird notion   
   that   
   >>>>>>>>>>> when somebody disagrees with your conclusions, they are telling   
   lies.   
   >>>>>>>>>>> That's not just with me, I've seen you do it with other people.   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>> Why lie about what you did.  Go up and see for yourself.  You left   
   the   
   >>>>>>>>>> quotes in, but ran from them and started lying about what they   
   meant.   
   >>>>>>>>>> What is the definition of supernatural miracles?   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> My example has always been Behe as a tweeker,   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and you know that for a fact.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> You keep insisting that there is no difference between them and   
   Behe.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> He, however, gave three specific examples of what he regards as   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> tweaking - the bacterial flagellum, the blood clotting cascade   
   and the   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> immune system.[1]  You have not been able to give even one   
   example of   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> anything that Biologos regards as tweaking, all you can do is   
   try to   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> change the goalposts by waving your hands about unspecified   
   miracles   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> which are something completely outside of science, nothing to do   
   with   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> denying science. For example, what *science* is contradicted or   
   denied   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> by the belief in the supernatural Resurrection of Christ?   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> I have always said that some of them are tweekers like Behe   
   because of   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> what I quoted them as claiming.  They are more honest about it   
   than   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> Behe, in that they admit that they believe supernatural miracles   
   were   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> involved.  "Supernatural" was their claim making them just as   
   much a   
      
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