[continued from previous message]   
      
   >>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>> Tony Pago was a Catholic and a geocentrist. You recently used   
   another   
   >>>>>>>>>>> Catholic geoecentrist to support your claims about heresy. That   
   fact   
   >>>>>>>>>>> that we know of at least two Catholic geoecentrists wouldn't make   
   it   
   >>>>>>>>>>> ok to accuse the Catholic Church of supporting geocentrism. You   
   have   
   >>>>>>>>>>> not been able to produce even one example of anyone from Biologos   
   >>>>>>>>>>> rejecting natural causes of evolution yet you accuse them   
   collectively   
   >>>>>>>>>>> of denying it.   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>> Why keep lying about the past.  It was you that could not even deal   
   with   
   >>>>>>>>>> what your trusted Catholic source claimed about heliocentrism being   
   a   
   >>>>>>>>>> heresy.  The sources that I came up with also claimed that   
   heliocentrism   
   >>>>>>>>>> was a heresy both times Galileo faced the charges.  Three of them   
   agreed   
   >>>>>>>>>> that it was a formal heresy when Galileo first faced the charge in   
   >>>>>>>>>> 1615-1616 (the anti-geocentric Catholic source, the conservative   
   >>>>>>>>>> Catholic source, and the geocentric wiki).  The conservative   
   Catholic   
   >>>>>>>>>> source claimed that it was also a formal heresy when Galileo faced   
   the   
   >>>>>>>>>> charges the second time with papal involvement.  The other two   
   sources   
   >>>>>>>>>> noted that it was only claimed to have been a heresy in the   
   sentencing,   
   >>>>>>>>>> and the word formal had been omitted.  The anti-geocentric site   
   claimed   
   >>>>>>>>>> that the 1616 inquisition judgement had not been accepted by the   
   later   
   >>>>>>>>>> court, but then they also tried to claim that the sentencing had   
   been   
   >>>>>>>>>> poorly written, and that Galileo had actually been found guilty of   
   >>>>>>>>>> breaking his oath to the 1616 inquisition.  This would mean that the   
   >>>>>>>>>> later court had accepted the 1616 inquisition judgement.   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>> The Catholic church still has geocentric creationists like Pagano   
   >>>>>>>>>> because they claim that heliocentrism is still a heresy, and that   
   it has   
   >>>>>>>>>> never been negated as a heresy.  The anti-geocentric site put up the   
   >>>>>>>>>> 1822 Papal decree that removed heliocentrism from all banned lists,   
   and   
   >>>>>>>>>> that it could be used to tell time and calculate celestial   
   movements.   
   >>>>>>>>>> The geocentric catholics claim is that heliocentrism did not stop   
   being   
   >>>>>>>>>> a heresy because there were still restrictions placed on what could   
   be   
   >>>>>>>>>> published about it.  These restrictions were not stated in the   
   decree,   
   >>>>>>>>>> just that you had to consult the proper church officer.  A site   
   that I   
   >>>>>>>>>> put up years ago claimed that this decree just set things back to   
   what   
   >>>>>>>>>> was in place due to the Council of Trent, before heliocentric   
   >>>>>>>>>> publications were banned, and that heliocentrism could still not be   
   used   
   >>>>>>>>>> in relation to the beliefs of the church fathers.  After the   
   Council of   
   >>>>>>>>>> Trent heliocentrism became a heresy because all the church fathers   
   were   
   >>>>>>>>>> geocentrists.  The anti-geocentric Catholic site agrees with what   
   the   
   >>>>>>>>>> Council of trent did, and even admit that heliocentrism was s formal   
   >>>>>>>>>> heresy when Galileo first faced the charge in 1616.   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>> Your stupidity about geocentrism is likely directly related to your   
   >>>>>>>>>> stupidity and lies about the current topic.  You just can't accept   
   >>>>>>>>>> reality for what it is, even if you have to deny what your own   
   trusted   
   >>>>>>>>>> source told you.   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>> The Biologos creationists just claim what they claim.  You have to   
   keep   
   >>>>>>>>>> lying about it for your own stupid reasons.   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> The Reason to   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> Believe exIDiots claim that their designer only made it look like   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> biological evolution happened and is still happening by   
   "recreating" new   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> species just a little different from the previously existing   
   species.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> It is so much like evolution that the new recreation can even   
   interbreed   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> sometimes with the previously existing species.  None of the   
   Biologos   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> evolutionary creationists are likely that badly off, but they   
   still   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> claim that supernatural miracles were needed.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> Just admit that you have been lying, and quit lying.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>> You really do need to grasp the idea that people disagreeing with   
   your   
   >>>>>>>>>>> ideas and opinions does not make them liars.   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>> Just admit that you have been lying since you ran from the quotes   
   the   
   >>>>>>>>>> first time and started lying.  Nothing has changed.  The Biologos   
   >>>>>>>>>> creationist claimed what they are quoted as claiming.  They are   
   biblical   
   >>>>>>>>>> literalists that beileve that evolution is a fact of nature, but   
   they   
   >>>>>>>>>> believe in Biblical claims like their god making man in his own   
   image,   
   >>>>>>>>>> and they believe that this god used supernatural miracles in the   
   >>>>>>>>>> creation and is still using supernatural miracles today.  The use of   
   >>>>>>>>>> supernatural mechanisms is a denial of using natural mechanisms in   
   those   
   >>>>>>>>>> cases by definition.  Natural mechanisms did not do what was   
   >>>>>>>>>> accomplished by supernatural miracles.   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>> Ron Okimoto   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> You understood   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> that you were lying when you ran from the quotes and started to   
   lie, and   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> nothing has changed.  The quotes are what they are.  Just go up   
   the   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> thread and relive what you did.  Supernatural miracles are not   
   natural   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> mechanisms for evolution.  They are denying that biological   
   evolution is   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> due to natural processes because they are claiming that unnatural   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> processes (supernatural miracles) were needed to do specific   
   biblical   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> literalist interpretations of what had to happen to evolve man in   
   the   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> image of their god.  This is no different from Behe's tweeker   
   designer   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> claims.  Just because they understand that Behe's argument to   
   support   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> the tweeking is bogus, doesn't change the fact that they are   
   tweekers   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> too.  Behe needed supernatural miracles, but he wasn't as honest   
   about   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> it as these guys are.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> Ron Okimoto   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> when you know that I was always claiming that it was not all   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> natural with their claim about taking the Bible literally,   
   their belief   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> in supernatural miracles, and their belief that their god was   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> manipulating nature in the past and still is.  They deny natural   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> mechanisms as much as Behe when he claims that his god was   
   needed to   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> evolve the flagellum, and these guys are claiming that their   
   god made   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> man in his own image, a claim that they make due to their   
   literal   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> interpretation of the Bible.  Behe has never claimed how his   
   designer   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> did it except for his off the cuff "puffs of smoke", but these   
   guys are   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> outright claiming supernatural miracles.  Your lies were never   
   needed,   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and were only used because you couldn't deal with the reality   
   that some   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> of these guys are tweekers like an ID perp such as Behe.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>   
      
   [continued in next message]   
      
   --- SoupGate-DOS v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)