[continued from previous message]   
      
   >> the simplest living cells provides strong grounds for inferring that a   
   >> designing intelligence played a role in the origin of life.   
   >   
   >Gap denial that is still in use by creationists like MarkE, but the Top    
   >Six means that the origin of life on earth is not Biblical.  MarkE found    
   >this out when he was trying to define the gap well enough to claim that    
   >life could not have originated on this earth by natural means.  Just    
   >what he put together meant that the Bible was wrong about the origin of    
   >life, and order of creation of life.   
      
      
   No wonder gap denial works; filling gaps just makes twice as many   
   gaps.     
      
       
   >> @4:26 We didn't like evolve from anything.  That doesn't make any   
   >> sense.  I mean how can like an African-American person evolve from a   
   >> white person?  We're different skin.   
   >   
   >Weird argument that was almost nonexistant on TO.  Most Biblical    
   >creationists understand that all the races on earth evolved from Noah's    
   >family that survived on the Ark.  There have been some stupid    
   >creationists that claimed that African Americans had the "mark of Cain",    
   >but only the righteous were allowed on the Ark.   
      
      
   Mentioning skin color is a such a blatant no-no nowadays, that only   
   the most clueless would evoke it.  OTOH T.O. has seen more subtle   
   versions of that line of reasoning, ex. gaslighting transgenders,   
   atheists, and other POVs different from their own.   
      
      
   >Ron Okimoto   
   >   
   >>    
   >>    
   >>     ***   
   >>    
   >> It's almost certain that T.O. readers have heard/read arguments   
   >> similar to those above.  No matter how one might respond to them, ISTM   
   >> the answers Valkai provides are, from an evolutionary perspective   
   >> "good enough".   
   >   
   >   
   >>    
   >> And in response to the "Someone is wrong on the Internet" trope,   
   >> Valkai offers the following:   
   >>    
   >>    
   >>     ***   
   >>    
   >> @31:39 Teaching evolution to creationists is an uphill battle that's   
   >> been raging for hundreds of years.  You're not going to win it   
   >> overnight.  But if you can win over just one person, you will be   
   >> freeing that person from the shackles of dogmatic thinking, and you'll   
   >> be protecting the future from a population that would burn the world   
   >> around them out of ignorance and fear.  And that is a very worthy   
   >> endeavor.   
   >>    
      
      
   FWIW here's some of Valkai's answers:   
      
   1. Correct common misconceptions (self-explanatory).   
      
   2. Signal to other sciences.  IOW show how the study of evolution   
   impacts other Sciences, especially if those other Sciences impact   
   their lives.  Consider for example the fossil fuel industry which is   
   entirely reliant on the idea that we live on an old Earth full of oil   
   from long dead organic matter from the Carboniferous period.   
      
   3. Deviate from dogma and dualism.  Many creationists are trapped in   
   dogmatic thinking and for that reason they're incredibly uncomfortable   
   with the fuzzy complicated answers that science often provides.  When   
   someone's mind has been chained by dogma it can be very difficult for   
   them to understand this part of science. Because they look to one book   
   for all the answers, they assume that we do too.  Because they look to   
   one Creator who made everything, they think that if they can tear down   
   some big biologist the rest of biology will come crashing down along   
   with them.   
      
   4. Make it matter to them personally.  Remember that this person is   
   coming from a point of view that the entire universe was custom made   
   by hand with them in mind, and it can be pretty scary to step out of   
   that comfort zone and into the void with the rest of us. A person   
   who's used to the idea of creationism can easily equate the feelings   
   of freedom that I get to a nihilistic and mechanistic view of life on   
   Earth, or a feeling of hopelessness and despair.  It's up to us to   
   help them see that there is Beauty and wonderful purpose to be found   
   in the book of nature if only they take the time to just go and look   
   for it.   
      
   --    
   To know less than we don't know is the nature of most knowledge   
      
   --- SoupGate-DOS v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)