[continued from previous message]   
      
   >> primarily the things covered in the Gospel relating to Jesus,   
   >> particularly the Virgin Birth and the Resurrection - both these are   
   >> specified in the Nicene Creed and denial of them is a denial of basic   
   >> tenets of Christianity. [1]   
   >>   
   >> The second 'optional' category is miracles that have happened to   
   >> individuals outside the Gospels, things like miracles at Lourdes or   
   >> used as part of the canonisation process [2]. In declaring these   
   >> miracles, the Catholic Church does not definitively declare them to be   
   >> supernatural; what they declare is that they are things that have been   
   >> fully investigated by appropriate experts (typically medical as well   
   >> as religious and often involving non-Catholics and all possible   
   >> natural causes have been ruled out [3] so Catholics are free as   
   >> individuals to treat these as supernatural but that belief is not   
   >> obligatory.   
   >>   
   >> To sum up, God by definition is beyond natural forces or human   
   >> language, so we are always going to be limited in trying to understand   
   >> let alone explain him. That is where Faith ultimately comes into it   
   >> and that, to me, is very much a personal experience. As someone once   
   >> said, falling in love with God is like falling in love with another   
   >> person, you can't really explain it but it just becomes part of your   
   >> life.   
   >>   
   >   
   >okay, I am also a determinist with an allowance for continuous random   
   >(quantum level) variations.   
      
   Sorry, that come s across as something of an oxymoron to me - like a   
   woman being 'a little bit pregnant' :)  I would think that things are   
   either deterministic or not, no halfway house available.   
      
   >So an instantaneous determination but   
   >increasing probabilistic predictions as time to prediction increases.   
   >Free will is right out. Consider what I must think of what you are   
   >saying above.   
      
   Fair enough as long as we both recognise that we are talking world   
   views, not something we can back up with real evidence.   
      
   […]   
      
   --- SoupGate-DOS v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)