From: me22over7@gmail.com   
      
   On 19/07/2025 12:45 am, RonO wrote:   
   > On 7/17/2025 11:25 PM, MarkE wrote:   
   >> On 18/07/2025 12:48 am, RonO wrote:   
   >>> On 7/17/2025 12:44 AM, MarkE wrote:   
   >>>>  From this recent EN article: https://evolutionnews.org/2025/07/new-   
   >>>> article-from-james-tour-undermines-a-pillar-of-origin-of-life-theories/   
   >>>>   
   >>>> 'In comparison to a protein’s half-life, the rate of polypeptide   
   >>>> chain elongation under prebiotic conditions is very long. Yang et   
   >>>> al. (2025) identify numerous barriers to sustained polypeptide   
   >>>> growth, including the formation of non-peptide linkages and cyclic   
   >>>> structures, stringent environmental requirements, and unfavorable   
   >>>> thermodynamics. Their analysis establishes that the rate of growth   
   >>>> must be far smaller than one added amino acid per chain per day."   
   >>>>   
   >>>> "Even assuming one addition each day, synthesizing a protein of 200   
   >>>> amino acids would require over six months. However, the growing   
   >>>> chain would almost certainly degrade in a much shorter time span.   
   >>>> The challenge is even greater for RNA, which has a significantly   
   >>>> shorter half-life and encounters additional chemical and structural   
   >>>> hurdles during formation."   
   >>>>   
   >>>> Paper here: https://sciendo.com/article/10.2478/biocosmos-2025-0010   
   >>>>   
   >>>> No doubt this paper will be critiqued and disputed, but it is I   
   >>>> think an example of the ongoing scrutiny and developing fundamental   
   >>>> challenges to OoL. My prediction is these will continue to emerge,   
   >>>> weakening materialistic abiogenesis and strengthening ID's core claim.   
   >>>>   
   >>>>   
   >>> It is only an example of the continuation of Biblical creationist's   
   >>> denial of the fact that nature is not Biblical.   
   >>>   
   >>> Tour really doesn't care if some god was responsible for making these   
   >>> initial polymers (if they ever needed to exist because no one knows   
   >>> what the first molecular self replicators were).  That god is not the   
   >>> god described in the Bible.  Like you, he only wants to deny reality.   
   >>>   
   >>> Has anyone proposed that the origin of life depends on condensation   
   >>> polymerization in solution?   
   >>   
   >> Yes. You know...primordial soup, warm little pond, early ocean,   
   >> hydrothermal vents, etc?   
   >   
   > You should read the Yang et al., 2025 review article that the ID perps   
   > cite in the scam article that you link to.   
   >   
   > They go over the alternatives that are not subject to the slow   
   > polymerization.  So the ID perp knew about the alternatives before they   
   > wrote the bogus article, and only cite Yang et al. 2025 for the expected   
   > time of polymerization in solution when Yang extensively reviews the   
   > mineral catalyst option and notes the experimental sucesses. Essentially   
   > they were quote mining, and Yang obviously was talking about the options   
   > where the reaction is facilitated.   
   >   
   > https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00239-025-10237-9   
   > Really, they cite an article noting that the time limit doesn't exist   
   > because there are catalytic options.   
   >   
   >>   
   >> RNA likely wasn't what the first self   
   >>> replicators were made of.  The RNA world would have come after there   
   >>> were simple molecular self replicators.  Everything that I recall has   
   >>> been looking for catalytic surfaces that could be mineral or part   
   >>> mineral to make macromolecules.  I do not think that anyone ever   
   >>> wanted to depend on amino acids or nucleotides combining in solution.   
   >>> Yes, the reaction will spontaneously occur, but no one was depending   
   >>> on it to happen to form long polymers.  If the long polymers were   
   >>> self replicators they would have the catalytic ability to make more   
   >>> long polymers.  They would not be subject to the Tour's time limit,   
   >>> and if the first ploymers were formed by the catalytic activity of   
   >>> clay or other mineral surfaces they would not be subject to Tour's   
   >>> time limit.   
   >>>   
   >>> Google definition of catalysis:   
   >>> Catalysis is the process of increasing the rate of a chemical   
   >>> reaction by adding a substance called a catalyst, which itself is not   
   >>> consumed in the reaction. Catalysts work by providing an alternative   
   >>> reaction pathway with a lower activation energy, making it easier for   
   >>> the reaction to proceed. Catalysis is crucial in many industrial   
   >>> processes, as well as in biological systems like the human body.   
   >>>   
   >>> Tour knows that there never was any ID creation science, and he knows   
   >>> that what he is doing is not support for his religious beliefs.  It   
   >>> is only denial for the sake of denial.   
   >>>   
   >>> You do owe, at least, me the explanation that I requested after   
   >>> answering all your denial posts.   
   >>   
   >> I do appreciate your consistent engagement, and would like to be as   
   >> upfront as I can, so here you are:   
   >>   
   >>>   
   >>> REPOST:   
   >>> MarkE, you likely owe everyone a straight forward statement on how   
   >>> you intend to integrate the god that would have been responsible for   
   >>> setting chirality into the initial lifeforms over 3 billion years ago   
      
   [continued in next message]   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)