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|    talk.origins    |    Evolution versus creationism (sometimes    |    142,579 messages    |
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|    Message 141,106 of 142,579    |
|    RonO to All    |
|    Gish Gallop Icons of creationist denial     |
|    19 Jul 25 12:46:20    |
      From: rokimoto557@gmail.com              I Googled the topics and added Duane Gish. It just demonstrates that       Wells' Icons were all well used creationist denial Icons.              Wells' icons       1 Miller–Urey experiment       2 Darwin's tree of life       3 Homology in vertebrate limbs       4 Haeckel's embryos       5 Archaeopteryx       6 Peppered moth       7 Darwin's finches       8 Four-winged fruit flies       9 Fossil horses       10 Hominid evolution              I tried homology first because Gish's denial was multi level and       included, claims of a drosophila experiment to deny vertebrate homology.        Google does note this argument, but does not note that Gish's evidence       was for suspected genes associated with drosophila eyes and not for       vertebrate limbs depicted in his homology slide. The quote that he put       up came from someone talking about a drosophila experiment that occurred       years before any actual genes had been identified as being responsible       for drosophila eyes. It would have been a shift within species and did       not have much to do with homologous structures. There is no reason why       the genes responsible for the development of homologous structures       cannot be swapped out or changed over time. Any changes just have to       work within what is already working.              QUOTE from below:       "Unproven" Genetic Basis: Gish also questioned the genetic basis of       homology, suggesting that similar genes for reptile legs and bird wings       should be present if they evolved from an ancestral leg, but that       evidence presented by evolutionists doesn't consistently support this.       END QUOTE:              Homology in vertebrate limbs and Duane Gish              • Definition: Homology refers to the similarity in anatomical       structures, physiology, or development of different species due to       descent from a common evolutionary ancestor.       • Vertebrate Forelimbs as an Example: The classic example of homology is       the forelimbs of vertebrates, such as the human arm, bird wing, and       whale flipper. Despite their different functions (grasping, flying,       swimming), they are all composed of similar bones – the humerus, radius,       and ulna – arranged in a comparable pattern. This underlying similarity,       despite functional divergence, is explained by the idea that these       structures were inherited from a common ancestor who had a similar limb       structure, which was then modified over time through evolution to suit       different purposes.       • Evidence for Evolution: Homologous structures like the vertebrate       forelimb provide strong evidence for the theory of evolution and common       ancestry. They suggest that diverse species have evolved from a common       ancestor, adapting the inherited structures to their specific       environments and functions.       • The Pentadactyl Limb: The presence of a pentadactyl limb       (five-fingered limb) in various vertebrates, including humans, bats, and       whales, further strengthens the argument for common descent. Even though       their limbs serve different purposes, the shared basic structure points       towards a common ancestor with a similar limb design.       Duane Gish's arguments and criticism       • Duane Gish was a prominent creationist who engaged in debates against       the theory of evolution.       • Gish's Arguments Against Homology:       o Lack of direct evidence: Gish and other creationists argued that       homology does not prove evolution, as nobody has witnessed the gradual       changes in millions of generations from a common ancestor to a bird or a       human.       o Alternative Explanation: They suggested that similarities could be       explained by a "common design" by a creator, where similar structures       are used to solve similar functional problems.       o "Unproven" Genetic Basis: Gish also questioned the genetic basis of       homology, suggesting that similar genes for reptile legs and bird wings       should be present if they evolved from an ancestral leg, but that       evidence presented by evolutionists doesn't consistently support this.       o "Gish Gallop": Gish was known for using a debating tactic called the       "Gish Gallop," where he would present a large number of arguments, some       accurate and some inaccurate or misleading, in a short time frame,       making it difficult for his opponents to address them all comprehensively.                     1 Miller–Urey experiment       Google       Duane Gish       Duane Gish (1921-2013) was an American biochemist and a prominent       advocate of young Earth creationism. He served as a Vice President of       the Institute for Creation Research (ICR) and was known for his numerous       publications and debates arguing against evolutionary theory.       Gish's arguments against the Miller-Urey experiment       Gish and other creationists used the perceived shortcomings of the       Miller-Urey experiment to argue against the possibility of abiogenesis       and, by extension, against evolution.       Some of the key points of their critique included:       • Atmospheric Composition: Gish claimed the gases used in the experiment       (methane, ammonia, and hydrogen) were not representative of the Earth's       early atmosphere, which he argued was likely oxidizing (containing       oxygen) rather than reducing. However, more recent research suggests the              [continued in next message]              --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05        * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)    |
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