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   talk.origins      Evolution versus creationism (sometimes      142,579 messages   

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   Message 141,107 of 142,579   
   RonO to All   
   Gish Gallop Icons of creationist denial    
   19 Jul 25 12:46:20   
   
   [continued from previous message]   
      
   early Earth's atmosphere might have been reducing, containing elements   
   like methane, ammonia, and hydrogen, supporting the conditions used in   
   the Miller-Urey experiment.   
   •	Destruction of Products: Gish argued that lightning and other harsh   
   conditions on the early Earth would have destroyed any organic compounds   
   formed, according to the Iowa State Daily.   
   •	Chirality: Gish highlighted the fact that the experiment produced a   
   racemic mixture of left- and right-handed amino acids, while living   
   organisms exclusively utilize left-handed amino acids.   
   •	The Law of Biogenesis and the Second Law of Thermodynamics: Gish   
   argued that the Miller-Urey experiment contradicted these fundamental   
   laws, which he interpreted as stating that life cannot arise from   
   non-life and that order cannot arise spontaneously from disorder.   
      
      
   Darwin's Tree of Life and Duane Gish:   
   Gish would put up the tree of life slide only to claim that the branches   
   were not connected.  The fossil evidence was fragmentary.  The tree of   
   life no longer depends on morphology and fossils.  The DNA and protein   
   sequences fill in all the gaps.  Forensic geneology proves that genetics   
   can fill in the gaps and identify the identity of persons who's genetic   
   data is not available.  Behe understands that we can reconstruct   
   ancestral sequences.  Some of his claims of finding 2 neutral mutations   
   being on the edge of evolution depend on the ability to identify the   
   ancestral sequence and determine when the neutral mutations occurred.   
      
   Darwin's Tree of Life and Duane Gish: contrasting perspectives   
   Charles Darwin's "Tree of Life" is a foundational concept in   
   evolutionary biology, illustrating the idea that all life on Earth   
   shares a common ancestor and has diversified over time through a   
   branching process of descent with modification. This concept is visually   
   represented by a tree-like diagram where each branch represents a   
   species, and the points where branches diverge indicate a common ancestor.   
   Duane Gish, a biochemist and prominent young-Earth creationist, was a   
   vocal opponent of evolutionary theory, including Darwin's concept of the   
   Tree of Life. He argued against evolution, particularly the concept of   
   common descent, and advocated for creationism based on a literal   
   interpretation of the Genesis story.   
   Gish's arguments against evolution and the Tree of Life   
   Gish primarily challenged the scientific evidence for evolution, often   
   presenting arguments that focused on perceived weaknesses in   
   evolutionary theory, rather than presenting a scientific case for   
   creationism. His arguments included:   
   •	The fossil record: Gish claimed that the fossil record lacks   
   transitional forms, which he considered evidence against evolution. He   
   also asserted that the Cambrian Explosion, a period of rapid   
   diversification of animal life, contradicts evolutionary expectations of   
   gradual change.   
   •	Second Law of Thermodynamics: Gish argued that the Second Law of   
   Thermodynamics, which states that systems tend towards disorder,   
   prevents the natural emergence of complex life and the ongoing evolution   
   of organisms. Critics countered that Gish's interpretation of the Second   
   Law was oversimplified and failed to account for localized order within   
   open systems like Earth.   
   •	Probability of life's origin: Gish used calculations of vanishingly   
   small probabilities of random assembly of biological molecules to argue   
   against the naturalistic origin of life, effectively creating a straw   
   man of scientific theories on abiogenesis.   
   •	Homology and vestigial organs: Gish dismissed the evidence from   
   homology (shared characteristics due to common ancestry) and vestigial   
   organs, again often misrepresenting evolutionary explanations for these   
   phenomena.   
      
   4    Haeckel's embryos   
   Duane Gish and creationist use of the controversy   
   •	Duane Gish, a prominent creationist debater, often used the   
   controversy surrounding Haeckel's embryo drawings as an argument against   
   evolution.   
   •	He claimed that the inaccuracies in Haeckel's drawings constituted   
   scientific fraud, which in turn supposedly undermines the entire theory   
   of evolution, according to the National Center for Science Education.   
   •	Creationists have sometimes argued that if Darwin relied on Haeckel,   
   and Haeckel was a fraud, then Darwin and the theory of evolution are   
   also fraudulent.   
   •	However, modern biology textbooks have moved away from using Haeckel's   
   original drawings, instead opting for photographs of real embryos to   
   illustrate embryological development.   
   •	While acknowledging the inaccuracies in Haeckel's drawings, many   
   scientists and educators emphasize that comparative embryology still   
   provides strong evidence for common descent, even without relying on   
   Haeckel's potentially flawed illustrations.   
   In essence, Duane Gish and other creationists used the acknowledged   
   historical inaccuracies and the ensuing debate surrounding Haeckel's   
   embryo drawings as a rhetorical tool in their debates against evolution.   
   While some of Haeckel's depictions were inaccurate, it's important to   
   differentiate between those historical shortcomings and the broader   
   scientific understanding of evolution and the supporting evidence from   
   comparative embryology. Modern science relies on more accurate data and   
   techniques, but still recognizes the value of comparative embryology in   
   understanding evolutionary relationships.   
      
   5    Archaeopteryx   
   •	Creationist Perspective:   
   Gish, affiliated with the Institute for Creation Research (ICR), viewed   
   Archaeopteryx as evidence supporting a biblical creation model, where   
   birds were created on Day 5 of the creation week, fully formed and able   
   to fly.   
   •	Transitional Fossil Challenge:   
   Creationists like Gish reject the idea of transitional fossils, arguing   
   that Archaeopteryx, despite its bird-like features, was simply a bird,   
   not an evolutionary link between reptiles and birds, according to the ICR.   
   •	Gish's Claims:   
   Gish asserted that Archaeopteryx possessed feathers identical to modern   
   birds and was capable of flight, suggesting it was not a transitional form.   
   •	Scientific Counterarguments:   
   Scientific literature has extensively documented the anatomical features   
   of Archaeopteryx, including its feathered wings, claws on its wings, and   
   teeth, which provide evidence of its reptilian ancestry and its place as   
   a transitional form between reptiles and birds.   
   •	Gish's Legacy:   
   Despite scientific evidence supporting Archaeopteryx's transitional   
   status, Gish's arguments have been influential within creationist   
   circles, shaping their interpretation of the fossil record.   
   •	Beyond Archaeopteryx:   
   Gish's work extended beyond Archaeopteryx, encompassing broader   
   challenges to evolutionary biology and promoting a young-Earth   
   creationist perspective.   
      
      
   6    Peppered moth   
   The Peppered Moth (Biston betularia) and Duane Gish are linked through   
   the creation-evolution debate.   
   Peppered Moth evolution   
   •	The peppered moth is considered a classic example of natural selection   
   in action.   
   •	Before the Industrial Revolution, the light-colored peppered moth   
   (var. typica) was more common in England.   
   •	With industrialization, pollution darkened trees, providing camouflage   
   for the darker form (var. carbonaria), which increased in frequency due   
   to predatory birds eating the more visible lighter moths.   
   •	As pollution decreased with clean air acts, the light form became   
   camouflaged again and its numbers rebounded.   
      
   [continued in next message]   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)   

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