[continued from previous message]   
      
   >> ousted and the new board president wanted nothing of it.  Though, I   
   >> personally think the original intent seemed reasonable and that Judge   
   >> Jones certainly stepped outside the normal lines of judicial behavior, I   
   >> personally don't really care if ID is taught in the schools, though it   
   >> would seem obvious the theory of evolution and it's shortcomings should   
   >> be part of the course.  In the end, you find people, like some of those   
   >> here, who just like to muck up any topic with this constant reference to   
   >> this one case and claim a total victory of some kind.  I think it should   
   >> be pretty much tuned out or you get nowhere.   
   >   
   >   
   > Before you two can reasonably claim that supernatural causes are valid   
   > alternatives to naturalistic ones, you need to identify:   
   >   
   > 1. what you mean by supernatural, with examples, and   
   > 2. how presuming supernatural causes explain anything.   
   >   
   > I stipulate for arguments' sake the possibility of a supernatural   
   > Creator.  Now then, tell me how that helps you say whether X is more   
   > or less likely than Y.  With naturalistic causes, there are physical   
   > limits which are identifiable and can be experimentally demonstrated.   
   > Not so with supernatural causes.   
   >   
      
   This is a fundamental issue in this debate. Intending to be constructive   
   and open-minded, what if I frame it this way:   
      
   Separate from and prior to specific discussions about science, how do   
   you regard naturalistic vs supernatural* explanations of origins?   
      
   Do you regard one more likely or worthy of consideration that the other,   
   and why?   
      
   * The so-called "God hypothesis", which might be summaried as: A   
   transcendent/supernatural agent (an unspecified God, intelligent   
   designer, non-material cause), involved in the origin and/or   
   organisation of the material universe.   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)