From: specimenNOSPAM@curioustaxon.omy.net   
      
   On 9/6/25 7:23 AM, MarkE wrote:   
   > [big snip]   
      
   > What if science itself identifies non-causal phenomena? Now, if I   
   > understand correctly, you are saying this can never happen; rather, what   
   > may appear to be non-causal can only be categorised as "currently   
   > unexplained naturally".   
   >   
   > This is the nub of the issue I think. You seem to have upfront excluded   
   > epistemologies apart from science (as good as it is). This provides a   
   > jusfication to leave it at "currently unexplained naturally" rather than   
   > considering supernatural explanation, because you assume that there is   
   > no other legitimate means of acquiring knowledge, and the best we can do   
   > is park it in the science baskets of "to do" or "too hard" (which takes   
   > us back to 1 above).   
      
   Okay, for sake of argument, let us suppose you have identified something   
   as non-causal, or even unambiguously supernatural.   
      
   Then what?   
      
    From a scientific standpoint, you're at a dead end. The main strength   
   of science is that it lets us make predictions, but you can't do that   
   with supernatural. Science also typically opens up further areas for   
   investigation, but here, instead, you're closing them.   
      
   Theology isn't helped, either. "Supernatural" does not tell you anything   
   about the supernatural "cause" either. (In fact, per our premise, there   
   was no cause.) Even if you take a leap of faith and say "God did it,"   
   you (or maybe everyone else besides you) are left with the question,   
   which god?   
      
   As far as I can see, there are two reasons why someone might want   
   supernatural explanations. The first is that they might be popular for   
   the same reason that postmodernism was popular: you get to make up   
   bullshit, free from all constraints, that a few other people might even   
   find impressive. The second is that hostile foreign powers might   
   encourage it as a way to sabotage a nation's economy and power.   
      
   --   
   Mark Isaak   
   "Wisdom begins when you discover the difference between 'That   
   doesn't make sense' and 'I don't understand.'" - Mary Doria Russell   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)