Forums before death by AOL, social media and spammers... "We can't have nice things"
|    talk.origins    |    Evolution versus creationism (sometimes    |    142,579 messages    |
[   << oldest   |   < older   |   list   |   newer >   |   newest >>   ]
|    Message 141,515 of 142,579    |
|    RonO to RonO    |
|    Re: Gish Gallop Icons of creationist den    |
|    17 Sep 25 08:05:12    |
      [continued from previous message]              >> Miller-Urey experiment to argue against the possibility of abiogenesis       >> and, by extension, against evolution.       >> Some of the key points of their critique included:       >> • Atmospheric Composition: Gish claimed the gases used in the       >> experiment (methane, ammonia, and hydrogen) were not representative of       >> the Earth's early atmosphere, which he argued was likely oxidizing       >> (containing oxygen) rather than reducing. However, more recent       >> research suggests the early Earth's atmosphere might have been       >> reducing, containing elements like methane, ammonia, and hydrogen,       >> supporting the conditions used in the Miller-Urey experiment.       >> • Destruction of Products: Gish argued that lightning and other       >> harsh conditions on the early Earth would have destroyed any organic       >> compounds formed, according to the Iowa State Daily.       >> • Chirality: Gish highlighted the fact that the experiment produced       >> a racemic mixture of left- and right-handed amino acids, while living       >> organisms exclusively utilize left-handed amino acids.       >> • The Law of Biogenesis and the Second Law of Thermodynamics: Gish       >> argued that the Miller-Urey experiment contradicted these fundamental       >> laws, which he interpreted as stating that life cannot arise from non-       >> life and that order cannot arise spontaneously from disorder.       >>       >>       >> Darwin's Tree of Life and Duane Gish:       >> Gish would put up the tree of life slide only to claim that the       >> branches were not connected. The fossil evidence was fragmentary.       >> The tree of life no longer depends on morphology and fossils. The DNA       >> and protein sequences fill in all the gaps. Forensic geneology proves       >> that genetics can fill in the gaps and identify the identity of       >> persons who's genetic data is not available. Behe understands that we       >> can reconstruct ancestral sequences. Some of his claims of finding 2       >> neutral mutations being on the edge of evolution depend on the ability       >> to identify the ancestral sequence and determine when the neutral       >> mutations occurred.       >>       >> Darwin's Tree of Life and Duane Gish: contrasting perspectives       >> Charles Darwin's "Tree of Life" is a foundational concept in       >> evolutionary biology, illustrating the idea that all life on Earth       >> shares a common ancestor and has diversified over time through a       >> branching process of descent with modification. This concept is       >> visually represented by a tree-like diagram where each branch       >> represents a species, and the points where branches diverge indicate a       >> common ancestor.       >> Duane Gish, a biochemist and prominent young-Earth creationist, was a       >> vocal opponent of evolutionary theory, including Darwin's concept of       >> the Tree of Life. He argued against evolution, particularly the       >> concept of common descent, and advocated for creationism based on a       >> literal interpretation of the Genesis story.       >> Gish's arguments against evolution and the Tree of Life       >> Gish primarily challenged the scientific evidence for evolution, often       >> presenting arguments that focused on perceived weaknesses in       >> evolutionary theory, rather than presenting a scientific case for       >> creationism. His arguments included:       >> • The fossil record: Gish claimed that the fossil record lacks       >> transitional forms, which he considered evidence against evolution. He       >> also asserted that the Cambrian Explosion, a period of rapid       >> diversification of animal life, contradicts evolutionary expectations       >> of gradual change.       >> • Second Law of Thermodynamics: Gish argued that the Second Law of       >> Thermodynamics, which states that systems tend towards disorder,       >> prevents the natural emergence of complex life and the ongoing       >> evolution of organisms. Critics countered that Gish's interpretation       >> of the Second Law was oversimplified and failed to account for       >> localized order within open systems like Earth.       >> • Probability of life's origin: Gish used calculations of       >> vanishingly small probabilities of random assembly of biological       >> molecules to argue against the naturalistic origin of life,       >> effectively creating a straw man of scientific theories on abiogenesis.       >> • Homology and vestigial organs: Gish dismissed the evidence from       >> homology (shared characteristics due to common ancestry) and vestigial       >> organs, again often misrepresenting evolutionary explanations for       >> these phenomena.       >>       >> 4 Haeckel's embryos       >> Duane Gish and creationist use of the controversy       >> • Duane Gish, a prominent creationist debater, often used the       >> controversy surrounding Haeckel's embryo drawings as an argument       >> against evolution.       >> • He claimed that the inaccuracies in Haeckel's drawings       >> constituted scientific fraud, which in turn supposedly undermines the       >> entire theory of evolution, according to the National Center for       >> Science Education.       >> • Creationists have sometimes argued that if Darwin relied on       >> Haeckel, and Haeckel was a fraud, then Darwin and the theory of       >> evolution are also fraudulent.       >> • However, modern biology textbooks have moved away from using       >> Haeckel's original drawings, instead opting for photographs of real       >> embryos to illustrate embryological development.       >> • While acknowledging the inaccuracies in Haeckel's drawings, many       >> scientists and educators emphasize that comparative embryology still       >> provides strong evidence for common descent, even without relying on       >> Haeckel's potentially flawed illustrations.       >> In essence, Duane Gish and other creationists used the acknowledged       >> historical inaccuracies and the ensuing debate surrounding Haeckel's       >> embryo drawings as a rhetorical tool in their debates against       >> evolution. While some of Haeckel's depictions were inaccurate, it's       >> important to differentiate between those historical shortcomings and       >> the broader scientific understanding of evolution and the supporting       >> evidence from comparative embryology. Modern science relies on more       >> accurate data and techniques, but still recognizes the value of       >> comparative embryology in understanding evolutionary relationships.       >>       >> 5 Archaeopteryx       >> • Creationist Perspective:       >> Gish, affiliated with the Institute for Creation Research (ICR),       >> viewed Archaeopteryx as evidence supporting a biblical creation model,       >> where birds were created on Day 5 of the creation week, fully formed       >> and able to fly.       >> • Transitional Fossil Challenge:       >> Creationists like Gish reject the idea of transitional fossils,       >> arguing that Archaeopteryx, despite its bird-like features, was simply       >> a bird, not an evolutionary link between reptiles and birds, according       >> to the ICR.       >> • Gish's Claims:       >> Gish asserted that Archaeopteryx possessed feathers identical to       >> modern birds and was capable of flight, suggesting it was not a       >> transitional form.       >> • Scientific Counterarguments:       >> Scientific literature has extensively documented the anatomical       >> features of Archaeopteryx, including its feathered wings, claws on its       >> wings, and teeth, which provide evidence of its reptilian ancestry and       >> its place as a transitional form between reptiles and birds.       >> • Gish's Legacy:       >> Despite scientific evidence supporting Archaeopteryx's transitional              [continued in next message]              --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05        * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)    |
[   << oldest   |   < older   |   list   |   newer >   |   newest >>   ]
(c) 1994, bbs@darkrealms.ca