From: wolverine01@charter.net   
      
   On 11/9/2025 8:56 PM, RonO wrote:   
   > On 11/9/2025 6:35 PM, sticks wrote:   
   >> On 11/5/2025 8:03 PM, RonO wrote:   
   >>> On 11/5/2025 5:01 PM, sticks wrote:   
   >>>> On 11/4/2025 1:51 PM, RonO wrote:   
   >>>>  > On 11/4/2025 11:02 AM, sticks wrote:   
   >>>>  >> On 11/4/2025 10:44 AM, sticks wrote:   
   >>>>  >>> On 11/4/2025 9:36 AM, RonO wrote:   
   >>>>  >>>> I asked Google: "Is there any legitimate scientific support   
   >>>> for the   
   >>>>  >>>> Discovery Institute's alleged intelligent design science?"   
   >> ---snip---   
   >>> You should try to understand what the ID perps are selling, and   
   >>> determine if you want to support that claptrap.  It is not Biblical,   
   >>> and did not support most of the Biblical creationists IDiotic beliefs.   
   >>   
   >> I will go back and look at the things that you've mentioned.  However,   
   >> I will say I don't look at the issue like you do.  Your complaint   
   >> seems to stem from the last 45 years or so of the participants and   
   >> their supposed "agenda" moving forward.  ID for me does not have those   
   >> limitations, which is why I spent little time trying to understand   
   >> your problem with all of this. I am interested in the design aspect of   
   >> origins and that is nothing new in the discussion.  I see design in   
   >> many aspects and like you, have to decide if what someone says shows   
   >> signs of design, make a decision on it's worthiness.   
   >>   
   >>   
   >>   
   >>> The Big Bang occurred over 13 billion years ago.  Some fine tuning   
   >>> would have occurred before and during the Big Bang.  It took 8   
   >>> billion years for the materials that make up our solar system to be   
   >>> created by dying stars, so that our solar system could be fine tuned   
   >>> for life. The moon was not created during the 4th period of time, but   
   >>> was created at the same time that the earth was created.  Life arose   
   >>> on this planet over 3 billion years ago.  Life evolved on this planet   
   >>> as microbes for billions of years before the flagellum evolved by   
   >>> designer tweeking over a billion years ago among micro organisms.   
   >>> Multicellular organisms began evolving with in the last Billion years   
   >>> of the existence the earth.  Sea creatures evolved long before land   
   >>> plants existed that were supposed to have been the first lifeforms   
   >>> created during the 3rd period of time. Meyer's Cambrian explosion gap   
   >>> denial occurred within a 25 million year period over half a billion   
   >>> years ago, long before the first land plants existed on earth, and   
   >>> the crop plants described by the Bible as being created during the   
   >>> 3rd period of time would not exist until just before the dinos met   
   >>> their extinction.  The gaps in the human fossil record that they are   
   >>> talking about would exist within just the last 10 million years of   
   >>> the existence of life on this planet.   
   >>>   
   >>> Young earth creationists have always been the main supporters of the   
   >>> ID scam, but they would not believe any legitimate ID science   
   >>> concerning the Top Six.  If they understood what the ID perps had to   
   >>> teach they would not want to teach it.  That is how stupid and   
   >>> dishonest creationists have to be in order to support the ID scam.   
   >>   
   >> I am a YEC, but also think what you call the Big Bang did happen 13.8   
   >> million years ago.  I don't agree with much else of the time frame you   
   >> lay out above, for various reasons.  I am not trying to convince   
   >> anyone of anything for either science or religion.  So while I don't   
   >> care if a creationist is Y or O personally, I don't think it matters   
   >> to their "salvation" if they are a YEC or an OEC believer.  I doubt I   
   >> will ever feel the need to attack them on this issue like you do.  The   
   >> same tactic could be used against the OEC who, as you appear to do,   
   >> embrace some forms of species evolution in their theory of origins.   
   >> Some people do this by claiming the evolutionists, for example, simply   
   >> want to remove anything Supernatural from society.  Of course this is   
   >> true for the most part, but it is unnecessary to the topic.  I simply   
   >> don't care about the motivation other than looking to see if there is   
   >> a paradigm involved in how the evidence is interpreted, and even if   
   >> there is one I still believe I have the ability to come to my own   
   >> conclusions.   
   >   
   > The Big Bang is estimated to have occurred around 13.8 billion years   
   > ago, and it means that the Bible is wrong about the creation.   
      
   I of course disagree with this statement.  Don't really want to get into   
   it right now, but it all depends on what you accept as evidence, and if   
   you're tied to one theory.  Point is, the Bible is wrong to you, but not   
   to everyone else.   
      
   > You seem   
   > to be an old Universe young earth creationist, but the Top Six doesn't   
   > support that.   
      
   They support it to me.  I went and looked at all the 6 and it leads to   
   my question, as I am still not entirely sure I understand your position   
   on it.  Is your problem with the ID people solely that a court said they   
   have no science and thus they need to exit stage left, or do you really   
   believe all their theories and conclusions are simply wrong and cover   
   for trying to teach religion in school, and just want them gone?   
      
      
   [continued in next message]   
      
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