From: rokimoto557@gmail.com   
      
   On 11/21/2025 3:19 AM, Martin Harran wrote:   
   > On Thu, 20 Nov 2025 20:02:04 -0600, RonO    
   > wrote:   
   >   
   >> On 11/20/2025 11:32 AM, Martin Harran wrote:   
   >>> On Thu, 20 Nov 2025 09:38:56 -0600, RonO    
   >>> wrote:   
   >>>   
   >>>   
   >>> snip for focus #2]   
   >>>   
   >>>> You just need to stop lying and face reality.  The church fathers were   
   >>>> all geocentrists, and that is the way that the Inquisition wanted to   
   >>>> interpret scripture.   
   >>>   
   >>> That is just another lie that you have bought from your geocentrist   
   >>> mentor. The Church Fathers said nothing whatsoever about geocentrism   
   >>> or heliocentrism. The Inquisition charging Galileo with heresy made no   
   >>> reference whatsoever to the Church Fathers.   
   >>>   
   >>   
   >> The anti geocentrists admitted that it was true and even had the Council   
   >> of Trent citation.  All that the Anti geocentric Catholics claimed was   
   >> that it may have been a formal heresy when Galileo faced the charge in   
   >> 1616, but it was not a formal heresy charge when the Pope got involved.   
   >> The anti gencentric Catholics admitted that the Inquisition had banned   
   >> Copernican writings and made heliocentrism into a formal heresy due to   
   >> the Council of Trent.   
   >>   
   >> You got the Council of Trent quote, so you know that both sides are correct.   
   >   
   > Trying to divert from the Church Fathers to the Council of Trent does   
   > not hide the fact that your geocentrist mentor sold you a pup about   
   > the Fathers.   
   >   
   > And the reference to the Council of Trent is just another pup he sold   
   > you – the Council too said nothing whatsoever about geocentrism or   
   > heliocentrism.   
      
   The anti geocentrists confirmed what was said about the Inquisition and   
   the Council of Trent.  They confirmed that Galileo faced a formal heresy   
   charge just as the source that you did not like.  You were given the   
   anti geocentrist links last time you had to lie about this issue.   
      
   Both sides agreed that heliocentrism was not a formal heresy until the   
   Concil of Trent and their reliance on the church fathers for scriptural   
   interpretation.  Both sides pointed to the Inquisition adding Copernican   
   writings to the Index after the Council of Trent and starting their   
   campaign against the heresy.  Both sides agreed with the Wiki that   
   Galileo faced a formal heresy charge in 1615-1616.  They split when the   
   Pope got involved the second time.  The geocentric Catholics maintained   
   that it was still a formal heresy charge, but the anti geocentrics did   
   not want the Pope involved with a formal heresy charge.  They claimed   
   that the second court did not adopt the Inquisitions charges, and they   
   noted that even though the heresy is defined in the sentencing that it   
   was only written as a heresy and not a "formal heresy".  Even though the   
   anti geocentrists admitted that the Pope published the Galileo case and   
   had it desseminated through out the church in order to quash the   
   heliocentric heresy, the anti geocentrists claimed that, that was not an   
   official Papal act.  What is stupid is that one of the anti   
   geocentrist's arguments was that the sentencing was poorly written and   
   that Galileo was not found to be guilty of heresy, but of breaking his   
   oath to the Inquisition.  The stupid thing is that Galileo would need to   
   be guilty of the formal heresy charge in order to break that oath.   
   Either way the Pope was involved with something that he should have   
   never been involved with if he wanted to maintain Papal infallibility.   
      
   >   
   >>   
   >> Why would the Inquistion reference the Church fathers when they   
   >> referenced the Council of Trent when they banned the Copernican writings   
   >> before they brought Galileo up on heresy charges?   
   >   
   > Because if they thought Church Fathers had supported their case for   
   > heresy then they would most certainly have referenced it.   
      
   Both sides of the issue made the claim that you can check out.  The   
   geocentric beliefs of the Church Fathers has never been denied.  It was   
   the reason that the Inquisition could do what they did after the council   
   of Trent.   
      
   >   
   > It also wasn’t the Inquisition who referenced the Council of Trent, it   
   > was the people who first complained to the Inquisition about Galileo.   
   > Also, their reference was not to geocentrism, it was to the Council’s   
   > general rules on the interpretation of Holy Scripture which they   
   > claimed Galileo was offending.   
      
   So what?  The Inquisition still did what they did because the Council of   
   Trent gave them what they needed to make heliocentrism into a formal   
   heresy.  Both sides of the Catholic issue agree with that.  The   
   geocentrists claim that the Council of Trent's findings have never been   
   undone, and heliocentrism continues to be heretical in terms of   
   questioning the scriptural beliefs of the Church Fathers.  The crazy   
   thing is that the geocentrists claim that when the Pope removed   
   Copernican writings from the Index in 1820 (1820 is an approximation   
   because I recall both sides using different years but they were always   
   in the 1820's), and released Copernicanism to be freely published for   
      
   [continued in next message]   
      
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