From: rokimoto557@gmail.com   
      
   On 11/27/2025 12:52 PM, Rufus wrote:   
   > RonO  wrote:   
   >   
   >> On 11/27/2025 5:53 AM, jillery wrote:   
   >>> On Wed, 26 Nov 2025 15:35:43 -0600, RonO    
   >>> wrote:   
   >>>   
   >>>> https://abcnews.go.com/   
   >>>>   
   >>>> "Why some people are adopting turkeys instead of eating them" is a   
   >>>> video.  It is currently the top of the list, but it goes down as more   
   >>>> are added.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> It gets to some people that turkeys are likely smarter than your dog or   
   >>>> cat.  They have a bird's brain, and it is more efficient (in terms of   
   >>>> what it can do relative to it's size) than a mammlian brain.  I've known   
   >>>> people who treat their turkey like they would their dog.  It can follow   
   >>>> you around the yard and seems to want attention just like any other pet.   
   >>>>    We have likely selected them to be less mentally atuned than their   
   >>>> wild counterparts just like we selected dogs to have around 30% smaller   
   >>>> brains by body weight than wolves.  Dogs were the major protein source   
   >>>> before turkeys were domesticated for Mexico and South America.   
   >>>> Basically you need a food animal to stick around long enough to be eaten.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> Ron Okimoto   
   >>>   
   >>>   
   >>> I have read that domestic turkeys are dumber than rocks, but wild   
   >>> turkeys are quite alert.  OTOH I also read that wild toms can be   
   >>> territorial and aggressive even with their owners, attacking the back   
   >>> of a person's neck.   
   >>>   
   >>   
   >> Domestic turkeys have been bred so that a lot of the instinctive   
   >> behaviors have been lost, just like domestic dogs, but my guess is that   
   >> they might still be smarter in terms of observation, movement within and   
   >> analysis of their environment than dogs.  As I noted, I've known people   
   >> that treat their turkey like they would a dog.  They just have lost   
   >> instinctive reactions to the environment.  The turkeys seem to want the   
   >> company.  They no longer react to environmental stimuli in the same way   
   >> that wild turkeys do, and lack the knee jerk reactions.  My guess is   
   >> that we have never evaluated just how intelligent turkeys and chickens   
   >> are because we eat them.  There was that article that I put up several   
   >> years ago where they determined that baby chicks might be self aware,   
   >> something that dogs and cats may lack.  They noted that if they had a   
   >> chick isolated even in the presence of mirrors that it would give the   
   >> gathering call to be with other chicks, but if instead of a mirror they   
   >> had a window where they could see another chick that they would not give   
   >> the gathering call.  They seemed to know the difference between their   
   >> reflection and another bird.   
   >   
   >   
   > I raised turkeys a couple times, and I testify that they are really,   
   > really dumb.  Even dumber than the chickens.  They have barely enough   
   > neural activity to maintain consciousness.   
   >   
   > Cockroaches are smarter than domestic turkeys, and cockroaches are dumb   
   > enough to run under your upraised foot to hide.   
   >   
   > Wild turkeys are a different story.   
   >   
   >>   Chicken is the most consumed animal in the   
   >> US.  Over 9 billion of them are raised every year in the US.  Each one   
   >> only has two wings to give up for the Superbowl.   
   >>   
   >> Ron Okimoto   
   >   
   > That's why we depend on buffalo to make up the shortage.   
   >   
   You are likely mixing up the reduction in instinctive behaviors to lack   
   of consciousness.  Domestic turkeys are likely just as aware of their   
   environment, they just do not react to the environment in the knee jerk   
   instinctive behaviors that they had before domestication.  I once worked   
   with an inbred chicken line that seemed to be unconscious most of the   
   time.  Leghorns are known as a "flighty" breed because they run from   
   humans and perform their escape behaviors, but this inbred line seemed   
   to be brain dead.  I was told that when they were raised in pens on the   
   ground that you had to walk through the pen shuffling to nudge them out   
   of the way to keep from stepping on them.  In cages normal Leghorns   
   would retreat to the back of the cage but these birds would just sit and   
   stare at you as if they were not aware of you.  They would not try to   
   escape until you touched them.  They were not blind because when a male   
   was placed on the floor with a female he would go through his mating   
   dance, so the birds would respond to some visual stimuli.   
      
   The birds aren't stupid, they just do not react to stimuli normally.   
      
   Ron Okimoto   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)