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   talk.origins      Evolution versus creationism (sometimes      142,602 messages   

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   Message 141,890 of 142,602   
   RonO to All   
   Kitzmiller 20 years ago   
   02 Dec 25 17:17:48   
   
   From: rokimoto557@gmail.com   
      
   https://scienceandculture.com/2025/12/dover-days-a-fatuous-decis   
   on-is-about-to-turn-20-years-old/   
      
   Jonathan Witt was an English Major hired to be the chief liar for the ID   
   scam.  I can't recall, but Witt may have been staff before he became a   
   fellow.  After Kitzmiller Witt likely did not want to put out the bogus   
   propaganda any longer and they hired Casey Luskin to take his place.   
   Witt kept supporting the bait and switch as the only means left to push   
   the Wedge strategy.   
      
   In this article Witt is obviously stupidly biased about the Federal   
   Court decision that he knew was inevitable once the bait and switch   
   failed and the Dover rubes tried to teach the nonexistent ID science in   
   spite of the ID perps trying to run the bait and switch on the Dover   
   rubes.  He knew that the bait and switch was going down because there   
   was nothing worth teaching.  The Dover rubes did not bend over for the   
   switch scam, and they were too stupid and ignorant to understand that   
   the ID perps were the ones that had been selling the teach ID scam for   
   nearly a decade.  The bait and switch had gone down on every single   
   creationist rube legislator or school board that had wanted to teach ID   
   in their public schools for more than 3 years by the time Kitzmiller   
   happened.  The very first bait and switch scam run on the Ohio rubes in   
   2002 left no doubt among the Ohio creationist rubes that ID wasn't any   
   science that could be taught in the public schools.  Instead the Ohio   
   rubes bent over for the obfuscation and denial switch scam that the ID   
   perps told them had nothing to do with ID nor creationism, but the   
   obfuscation and denial was just the same junk that the scientific   
   creationists had used to obfuscate and deny the science.  The switch   
   scam just did not mention the religious reason for the obfuscation and   
   denial.  One of the Ohio board members still wanted to teach creationism   
   in the Ohio public schools so he put up the proposal that the definition   
   of science that was in the Ohio public school science standards should   
   be changed so that ID could be taught as science.  The board member   
   understood that ID was not science, but he wanted to teach it anyway.   
   Nelson (one of the founding ID perps) started admitting that the ID   
   science had never existed, but that the ID perps were working on   
   creating something worth calling science.  So even the ID perps   
   understood that what they had was not worth teaching as science.   
      
   That is the background that should be considered when reading this   
   article.  Witt understands that the bait and switch has been going down   
   for over 23 years because he wrote some of the teach ID scam propaganda   
   before the bait and switch started to go down.   
      
   It should also be noted that Phillip Johnson (the other ID perps still   
   call Johnson the godfather of the ID scam) went into court claiming that   
   ID would prevail and be taught in the Dover public schools, but after   
   sitting in court every day of testimony he changed his mind and admitted   
   that the ID science had never existed.  Why isn't that admission in   
   agreement with the judges decision considered by Witt?   
      
   https://web.archive.org/web/20070609171527/http:/sciencereview.b   
   rkeley.edu/articles/issue10/evolution.pdf   
      
   Johnson quotes:   
      
   QUOTE:   
   I also don’t think that there is really a theory of intelligent design   
   at the present time to propose as a comparable alternative to the   
   Darwinian theory, which is, whatever errors it might contain, a fully   
   worked out scheme. There is no intelligent design theory that’s   
   comparable. Working out a positive theory is the job of the scientific   
   people that we have affiliated with the movement. Some of them are quite   
   convinced that it’s doable, but that’s for them to prove...No product is   
   ready for competition in the educational world.   
   END QUOTE:   
      
   QUOTE:   
      For his part, Johnson agrees: “I think the fat lady has sung for any   
   efforts to change the approach in the public schools...the courts are   
   just not going to allow it. They never have. The efforts to change   
   things in the public schools generate more powerful opposition than   
   accomplish anything...I don’t think that means the end of the issue at   
   all.”   
      “In some respects,” he later goes on, “I’m almost relieved, and   
   glad. I think the issue is properly settled. It’s clear to me now that   
   the public schools are not going to change their line in my lifetime.   
   That isn’t to me where the action really is and ought to be.”   
   END QUOTE:   
      
   The Johnson quotes should be the end of the discussion for the ID perps   
   that continue two want to keep the ID creationist bait and switch scam   
   going.  The ID perps are not running the bait and switch on the science   
   side, but their own creationist support base is always the victim of   
   their using ID as bait.   
      
   Ron Okimoto   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)   

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