From: rokimoto557@gmail.com   
      
   On 12/15/2025 7:51 AM, jillery wrote:   
   > On Sat, 13 Dec 2025 20:01:38 -0600, RonO    
   > wrote:   
   >   
   >> https://scienceandculture.com/2025/12/ten-myths-about-dover-n   
   -10-the-intelligent-design-movement-died-after-dover/   
   >>   
   >> Has anyone ever claimed that the ID creationist scam died after Dover?   
   >> It was never taken seriously by anyone with a clue after that, but it   
   >> definitely did not die.  We had IDiots posting to TO until the ID perps   
   >> screwed up and put out their Top Six best evidences for the ID scam in   
   >> the order in which they must have occurred in this universe.   
   >   
   >   
   > What happened after Dover was IDists moved their efforts to supporting   
   > curricula in private schools, under the guise of religious expression.   
   > Their efforts gained even more traction as Trump, the Republican   
   > Party, and the MAGA movement weaponized fundamentalist religious   
   > groups for political gain.  And their efforts went into overdrive as   
   > Trump's SCOTUS judges handed down decisions to support bigotry under   
   > the guise of religious freedom.   
      
   I do not recall the ID perps ever pushing teaching the ID scam in   
   private schools.  At one time they had a home school lesson plan, but it   
   was mostly anti evolution and how that related to the families religious   
   beliefs.  Dembski was forced to apologize to his college students for   
   telling them that the earth may be older than a few thousand years old,   
   and that the flood may have been a local flood.  If he had not   
   apologized he would have been fired.  As it was his contract was not   
   renewed.   
      
   The ID perps have been claiming that their ID science can be taught in   
   the public schools for nearly 30 years, but they have never produced a   
   public school lesson plan that presented what could be taught and how   
   they thought that it could be taught.  Even their home school lesson   
   plan did not teach much about the ID scam, and they openly claimed that   
   it was not suitable for public schools as a disclaimer.  That lesson   
   plan doesn't seem to be available any longer at their web site.  It   
   seemed to spend a lot of time trying to assure the parent that ID was   
   religiously kosher.  Their problem likely is that most of their   
   creationist support base (it has always been YEC) would not want to   
   teach their kids the "evidence" that the ID perps claim to have   
   supporting ID science.  It is all non Biblical, and old earth gap   
   denial.  YEC would not want to teach their kids the junk so that they   
   could place the denial into context with reality.  Just think what a   
   flop ID would be if they taught the Top Six honestly in the order in   
   which they must have occurred in this universe along with relevant   
   contextual information.   
      
   Ron Okimoto   
   >   
   >   
   >> In fact, the ID perps doubled down on the bait and switch scam after   
   >> Dover, and they started claiming that the judges decision was wrong, and   
   >> that even though ID had been found to be illegal to teach in the Dover   
   >> public schools that the ID scam could still be taught outside of the   
   >> middle federal court district of PA.  The ID perps continue to run the   
   >> bait and switch ID scam to this day.  West Virginia, North and South   
   >> Dakota are evidence of that.  The ID perps are the only creationist   
   >> organization left still selling the rubes on the teach ID creationist   
   >> ploy.  The ID network quit selling the teach ID ploy when the bait and   
   >> switch started to go down, and they concentrated on selling the switch   
   >> scam that didn't mention that ID had ever existed.  They even changed   
   >> their name to COPE for around 8 years in order to sell the switch scam   
   >> without having ID in the name of their organization.   
   >>   
   >> The Louisiana rubes didn't bend over for the switch scam until 2008, and   
   >> had to have the bait and switch run on them a second time when they   
   >> tried to use the switch scam to teach ID in their public schools in   
   >> 2009.  Texas didn't pass their switch scam state school board junk until   
   >> 2010 and both Louisiana and Texas had the bait and switch run on them   
   >> again when both states tried to use the switch scam to teach ID in their   
   >> public schools in 2013.   
   >>   
   >> The ID movement has just been using ID as bait for over 23 years.  Dover   
   >> hit the fan and the bait and switch failed 3 years after the ID perps   
   >> began running the bait and switch scam on any creationist rubes that had   
   >> believed them about having any ID science to teach in the public   
   >> schools.  The Dover rubes were just too stupid and ignorant to know that   
   >> the ID perps were then ones that were selling the teach ID scam at that   
   >> time, so they didn't take the switch scam and tried to teach ID anyway.   
   >>   
   >> If anything the ID movement died when the bait and switch started to go   
   >> down in 2002.  Nelson started claiming that the ID science had never   
   >> existed, but that the ID perps were working on creating some, and IDiots   
   >> like Mike Gene admitted that he had given up on teaching the ID scam   
      
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