[continued from previous message]   
      
   limit.  They would obviously be very rare events, and he has found no   
   such events.  Behe refuses to look for them in his IC systems.  He knows   
   what has to be done, but he claims that it isn't up to him to verify his   
   own claims.  Without verification his claims cannot support anything.   
      
   >   
   > Behe’s position in Darwin’s Black Box, as far back as 1996 (which has   
   > remained consistent) is that selection explains optimization, not   
   > origination of complex molecular systems.   
   >   
      
   Natural selection is expected to optimize the reproduction of each   
   lineage under the current environmental conditions, and the   
   environmental conditions include other lifeforms as soon as the first   
   life form reproduced itself.  Optimization is not stagnation.  Every   
   change that works within what is already working that improves the   
   chance of reproduction is expected to be selected for.  That is why   
   Dembski had to admit that natural selection could be the designer of   
   what he was claiming was specified complexity.  He started calling this   
   lower level specified complexity, but it was still increasing specified   
   complexity of the systems.  Behe admitted that this was true when he   
   claimed that natural selection could account for the selection of his   
   two neutral mutations that accounted for a new function.  He just   
   claimed that natural selection would have never been given the   
   opportunity to select for 3 neutral mutations, and that if he found such   
   examples that, that would be evidence for design, but Behe has never   
   found any examples of 3 neutral mutations.  Both Dembski and Behe   
   understand that there is no limit for single mutation changes in   
   function being selected by natural selection.   
      
   The ID scam is just a scientific failure.  The ID perps knew that it was   
   a failure before they started running the bait and switch.  Behe   
   admitted that some IC systems could evolve at the turn of the century.   
   Mike Gene claimed to have attended the early ID perp conferences, but   
   never became a fellow, or, at least, never admitted to becoming a   
   fellow, and Mike Gene claimed that he had given up on teaching the ID   
   science back in 1999, years before the bait and switch started to go   
   down in 2002.  You know that Nelson started admitting that they never   
   had the ID science to teach, but that they were working on creating   
   some.  Both Nelson and Mike Gene kept supporting using ID as bait, and   
   that is all ID has ever become.  Mike gene did not quit the ID scam and   
   admit that the ID science never had existed until 2007.  Nelson is still   
   an ID perp promoting the bait even though he has acknowledged that they   
   don't have any ID science.  All he claims is that they are trying to   
   accomplish some valid science.   
      
   There is nothing for an honest creationist to support.  You have known   
   that for over 2 decades because you watched the stupid ID scam progress   
   to the point where they got Santorum to submit his "amendment" to the no   
   child left behind legislation and even though it was not included in the   
   legislation (it could be found in some type of appendix for the Bill   
   that included it as something submitted at one of the conferences where   
   the bill was written).  The ID perp claims about that got a lot of   
   creationist rubes interested in teaching ID.  Ohio was just the first,   
   but there were likely at least a half dozen others that needed to have   
   the bait and switch run on them within half a year of the first bait and   
   switch on Ohio.  Before Dover the ID perps had a list of over 20   
   examples where they claimed the rubes were still contemplating going for   
   the switch scam.  I don't think that any of them had done so at that   
   time except for Ohio.  I did not start calling the ID perps "perps" for   
   perpetrating the bait and switch scam until the bait and switch had gone   
   down 100% of the time on creationist rubes for nearly 3 years.  By that   
   time there was no doubt about what the ID perps were doing with ID, and   
   Ohio was still the only bunch of creationist rubes that had bent over   
   for the switch scam.  I don't recall any other legislators nor school   
   boards that bent over for the switch scam once the bait and switch had   
   gone down at that time.  No one seemed to be interested in teaching the   
   obfuscation and denial if they could not lie to the students about the   
   religious reason for the scam.  Texas and Louisiana did not pass their   
   switch scam junk until after the ID perp's failure in Dover and both of   
   them had to have the bait and switch rerun on them when they tried to   
   teach ID using the switch scam.   
      
   Ron Okimoto   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)