From: me22over7@gmail.com   
      
   On 16/12/2025 1:23 pm, John Harshman wrote:   
   > On 12/15/25 4:53 PM, MarkE wrote:   
   >> Larry Moran offers this analysis:   
   >>   
   >> "...A small number of these neutral mutations will become fixed in the   
   >> population and it's these fixed mutations that produce most of the   
   >> changes in the genome of evolving populations. According to the   
   >> neutral theory of population genetics, the number of fixed neutral   
   >> mutations corresponds to the mutation rate. Thus, in every evolving   
   >> population there will be 100 new fixed mutations per generation. This   
   >> means that fixation of 22 million mutations would take 220,000   
   >> generations. The average generation time of humans and chimps is 27.5   
   >> years so this corresponds to about 6 million years. That's close to   
   >> the time that humans and chimps diverged according to the fossil   
   >> record. What this means is that evolutionary theory is able to explain   
   >> the differences in the human genome—it has explanatory power."   
   >> https://sandwalk.blogspot.com/2025/12/how-many-regulatory-sites-in-   
   >> human.html   
   >>   
   >> However, chimp to human evolution involves major (profound)   
   >> adaptations, including:   
   >>   
   >> - Bipedalism and capacity for long-distance walking and endurance   
   >> running: short, broad pelvis; S-shaped spine; long legs relative to   
   >> arms; arched feet with non-opposable big toe.   
   >>   
   >> - Cognitive capacity increase: larger cranial capacity; dramatically   
   >> expanded neocortex; highly developed prefrontal cortex; these produce:   
   >> abstract reasoning; symbolic language; long-term planning;   
   >> mathematics, music, art; large cooperative societies; etc.   
   >>   
   >> - Other physiology: extended childhood and adolescence; long lifespan;   
   >> high energy investment in brain development; reduced muscle mass   
   >> relative to body size; craniofacial morphology supporting speech   
   >> articulation and dietary flexibility; precision hand grip and fine   
   >> motor control.   
   >>   
   >> How many non-neutral adaptive mutations (in fact, highly adaptive,   
   >> complex and coordinated suites of mutations) are required, over and   
   >> above the estimated neutral/near-neutral mutations, to produce these   
   >> adaptations, and how are these accounted for in the time available?   
   >>   
   > How many adaptive mutations? A few thousand, perhaps. Coordinated   
   > suites? Why would that be necessary? And how they would be accounted for   
   > is simple: you should understand that a number of mutations many orders   
   > of magnitude greater than the ones that eventually became fixed would   
   > have happened during human evolution. The ones that were advantageous   
   > were therefore a small sample of a much larger number than you are   
   > imagining here.   
   >   
      
   Here's your dilemma:   
      
   1. The human brain is the most complex object in the known universe*   
      
   2. Chimps are uncannily intelligent, but human intelligence is on   
   another level: abstract reasoning; symbolic language; long-term   
   planning; mathematics, music, art; large cooperative societies; etc   
      
   3. Therefore, the evolution of the human brain and human intelligence   
   from a chimp requires either:   
      
   (a) a very large increase in functional complexity; or   
      
   (b) the activation of largely pre-existing, latent capacity   
      
   If (a), then the generation of large amounts of new functional   
   complexity must be driven by adaptation (neutral drift without strong   
   selection cannot refine and ratchet up functional complexity);   
   therefore, the number of adaptive mutations required in this case would   
   be much, much more than "A few thousand".   
      
   Larry Moran has taken most of the available mutations off the table in   
   declaring them neutral or near-neutral, and in doing so has left   
   dramatically too few adaptive mutations to do the necessary heavy lifting*   
      
   If (b), then you've only shifted the problem, and raised this question:   
   how then did chimp brains acquire this latent capacity, since by   
   definition it has not previously been activated and expressed, and   
   therefore has not been selectable and built up over time.   
      
   Moreover, this option is something like suggesting that an Apple M5   
   processor can be activated from an Intel Pentium processor with "a few   
   thousand gates of tweaking", or that GPT 1.0 plus "a few thousand lines   
   of code" could give you GPT 5.   
      
      
   _______   
      
   * "So, is it really the most complex structure we know of? Many experts   
   still seem to believe so, from physicist Michio Kaku (2014) who   
   described the three pounds in our head as the most complex object in the   
   solar system (pp.2-3), to neuroscientist Christof Koch (2013),   
   psychiatrist Sir Robing Murray (2012), and neurobiologist Gerald   
   Fischbach (1992), who all described it as the most complex structure in   
   the known universe. This is because the complexity is much greater than   
   the number of cells themselves: The many complex connections and the   
   myriad interactions give the brain not only structural complexity but   
   turns it into an intricately functioning whole."   
   https://www.psychologytoday.com/au/blog/consciousness-and-beyond   
   202309/the-staggering-complexity-of-the-human-brain   
      
   * "There are roughly 23 thousand genes in the human genome. But, Kaku   
      
   [continued in next message]   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)