From: rokimoto557@gmail.com   
      
   On 12/17/2025 5:40 PM, JTEM wrote:   
   > On 12/17/25 10:36 AM, RonO wrote:   
   >   
   >> Chimps make and use tools.   
   >   
   > No they don't. It's stupid. And pretending they do doesn't make   
   > Chimps more like us, it makes "Tools" irrelevant. Because Chimps   
   > use "Tools" the same way countless mammals, birds and even   
   > invertebrates use "Tools." So either the history of tool use is   
   > unknown and unknowable, and thus useless to science, or you're   
   > using "Tool" as a verb and then turning around and pretending   
   > it's a noun.   
      
   What a nut job.  They strip the leaves off a stick and fish for   
   termites.  They chew up leaves to make a sponge to get water out of   
   crevasses.  They have known that they have had to redefine tool use in   
   order to differentiate humans from the other animals for a very long   
   time.  They can manipulate what they find in the environment to get what   
   they want.   
      
   They all use things in the environment to manipulate the environment.   
   Birds and octopus have been shown to be able to do the same types of   
   things.  Whatever brain power that they have it is enough to do those   
   things.   
      
   >   
   > I'll explain it, and your extensively documented mental illness   
   > coupled to your idiocy will cause you to ignore it...   
      
   Projection is what you always do.  You have to be aware of what you are   
   doing in order to keep projecting your own foibles onto someone else.   
      
   >   
   > Show us a million year old Chimp tool.   
      
   Show us the wooden tools that early Homo were making.   
      
   >   
   > Show us some 600,000 year old Chimp tools.   
      
   What a nut job.  Why would anyone be able to do that?  Name a single   
   chimp made tool that would survive for 600,000 years in jungle sediments.   
      
   >   
   > You pretend Chimps have been around for millions of years, right?   
   > And they make tools... right?  So show us some million year old   
   > Chimp tools.   
      
   No one claims that chimps of a million years ago were doing this.  It is   
   obviously passed down culturally, but no one can state when it started.   
   Nor how many times during the existence of the species that the   
   behaviors may have occurred.  Some of these behaviors are limited to   
   single bands of chimps, and if that band of chimps goes extinct their   
   culture would be lost.  That is how it has always been.  It takes years   
   before a chimp learns the behavior and can replicate it and get the   
   desired results.  That should tell you what an achievement it is for an   
   ape with a brain 1/3 the size of a human brain.   
      
      
   >   
   > But you can't. Because you're not witnessing tools -- which are   
   > nouns and CAN be preserved in the archaeological record -- you   
   > are witnessing ACTIONS. So if you don't see the rock in use you   
   > can't see a "Tool" as you mistakenly use the term. This rock,   
   > a million years later, is completely indistinguishable from any   
   > random rock.   
      
   A lot of tools are not easily preserved in the fossil record.  You would   
   be stupid to limit the definition by that factor.   
      
   >   
   > It was THE ACTIONS -- verb -- that was special, not the rock.   
      
   Just a nut job.   
      
   Ron Okimoto   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)