From: me22over7@gmail.com   
      
   On 18/12/2025 3:26 am, John Harshman wrote:   
   > On 12/17/25 3:22 AM, MarkE wrote:   
   >> On 17/12/2025 6:47 am, John Harshman wrote:   
   >>> On 12/16/25 4:22 AM, MarkE wrote:   
   >>>> On 16/12/2025 1:23 pm, John Harshman wrote:   
   >>>>> On 12/15/25 4:53 PM, MarkE wrote:   
   >>>>>> Larry Moran offers this analysis:   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> "...A small number of these neutral mutations will become fixed in   
   >>>>>> the population and it's these fixed mutations that produce most of   
   >>>>>> the changes in the genome of evolving populations. According to   
   >>>>>> the neutral theory of population genetics, the number of fixed   
   >>>>>> neutral mutations corresponds to the mutation rate. Thus, in every   
   >>>>>> evolving population there will be 100 new fixed mutations per   
   >>>>>> generation. This means that fixation of 22 million mutations would   
   >>>>>> take 220,000 generations. The average generation time of humans   
   >>>>>> and chimps is 27.5 years so this corresponds to about 6 million   
   >>>>>> years. That's close to the time that humans and chimps diverged   
   >>>>>> according to the fossil record. What this means is that   
   >>>>>> evolutionary theory is able to explain the differences in the   
   >>>>>> human genome—it has explanatory power."   
   >>>>>> https://sandwalk.blogspot.com/2025/12/how-many-regulatory-sites-   
   >>>>>> in- human.html   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> However, chimp to human evolution involves major (profound)   
   >>>>>> adaptations, including:   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> - Bipedalism and capacity for long-distance walking and endurance   
   >>>>>> running: short, broad pelvis; S-shaped spine; long legs relative   
   >>>>>> to arms; arched feet with non-opposable big toe.   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> - Cognitive capacity increase: larger cranial capacity;   
   >>>>>> dramatically expanded neocortex; highly developed prefrontal   
   >>>>>> cortex; these produce: abstract reasoning; symbolic language;   
   >>>>>> long-term planning; mathematics, music, art; large cooperative   
   >>>>>> societies; etc.   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> - Other physiology: extended childhood and adolescence; long   
   >>>>>> lifespan; high energy investment in brain development; reduced   
   >>>>>> muscle mass relative to body size; craniofacial morphology   
   >>>>>> supporting speech articulation and dietary flexibility; precision   
   >>>>>> hand grip and fine motor control.   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> How many non-neutral adaptive mutations (in fact, highly adaptive,   
   >>>>>> complex and coordinated suites of mutations) are required, over   
   >>>>>> and above the estimated neutral/near-neutral mutations, to produce   
   >>>>>> these adaptations, and how are these accounted for in the time   
   >>>>>> available?   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>> How many adaptive mutations? A few thousand, perhaps. Coordinated   
   >>>>> suites? Why would that be necessary? And how they would be   
   >>>>> accounted for is simple: you should understand that a number of   
   >>>>> mutations many orders of magnitude greater than the ones that   
   >>>>> eventually became fixed would have happened during human evolution.   
   >>>>> The ones that were advantageous were therefore a small sample of a   
   >>>>> much larger number than you are imagining here.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>   
   >>>> Here's your dilemma:   
   >>>>   
   >>>> 1. The human brain is the most complex object in the known universe*   
   >>>   
   >>> I've heard that said. But is it true? Is it more complex than a blue   
   >>> whale's brain, or an elephant's? And how much more complex is it than   
   >>> a chimp's brain, by whatever measure you're using?   
   >>   
   >> It is difficult to quantify, but even a casual observer of chimps and   
   >> humans recognises the scale of the difference. Civilisation and   
   >> spaceflight, for example.   
   >>   
   >> If you claim a functional difference of that magnitude could be   
   >> obtained with the addition of only a few thousand bits of information,   
   >> I'd say you've never designed anything. Sorry, no free lunch.   
   >   
   > You could have shortened your response to "I feel that I'm right, and   
   > I'm ignoring everything you say".   
      
   No. I'm observing that the difference between chimps and humans in terms   
   of what either can and have accomplished is self-evidently profoundly   
   greater for humans than chimps: civilisation, spaceflight, surgery,   
   symphonies, semiconductors, string theory, and sandwiches.   
      
   To be sure, human knowledge and achievement has been a cumulative,   
   cultural process, but even that relies on the innate capacity of   
   individuals.   
      
   Regardless of how we might quantify this difference, it is very large   
   and therefore needs explanation.   
      
   Would you agree?   
      
   >   
   >>>> 2. Chimps are uncannily intelligent, but human intelligence is on   
   >>>> another level: abstract reasoning; symbolic language; long-term   
   >>>> planning; mathematics, music, art; large cooperative societies; etc   
   >>>   
   >>> Chimps have some of those in embryonic form.   
   >>   
   >> And an earlier version of ChatGPT is ChatGPT 5.2 in embryonic form,   
   >> just needing a few thousand bytes of code to evolve?   
   >   
   > Your brain isn't a computer program.   
   >   
   >>>> 3. Therefore, the evolution of the human brain and human   
   >>>> intelligence from a chimp requires either:   
   >>>>   
   >>>> (a) a very large increase in functional complexity; or   
   >>>>   
   >>>> (b) the activation of largely pre-existing, latent capacity   
   >>>   
      
   [continued in next message]   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)