From: rokimoto557@gmail.com   
      
   On 12/18/2025 7:46 AM, jillery wrote:   
   > On Mon, 15 Dec 2025 12:15:59 -0600, RonO    
   > wrote:   
   >   
   >> On 12/15/2025 7:51 AM, jillery wrote:   
   >>> On Sat, 13 Dec 2025 20:01:38 -0600, RonO    
   >>> wrote:   
   >>>   
   >>>> https://scienceandculture.com/2025/12/ten-myths-about-dover   
   no-10-the-intelligent-design-movement-died-after-dover/   
   >>>>   
   >>>> Has anyone ever claimed that the ID creationist scam died after Dover?   
   >>>> It was never taken seriously by anyone with a clue after that, but it   
   >>>> definitely did not die.  We had IDiots posting to TO until the ID perps   
   >>>> screwed up and put out their Top Six best evidences for the ID scam in   
   >>>> the order in which they must have occurred in this universe.   
   >>>   
   >>>   
   >>> What happened after Dover was IDists moved their efforts to supporting   
   >>> curricula in private schools, under the guise of religious expression.   
   >>> Their efforts gained even more traction as Trump, the Republican   
   >>> Party, and the MAGA movement weaponized fundamentalist religious   
   >>> groups for political gain.  And their efforts went into overdrive as   
   >>> Trump's SCOTUS judges handed down decisions to support bigotry under   
   >>> the guise of religious freedom.   
   >>   
   >> I do not recall the ID perps ever pushing teaching the ID scam in   
   >> private schools.   
   >   
   >   
   > I don't mind refreshing your memory:   
   >   
   > People like Stephen Meyer, a longtime ID advocate, has teamed up with   
   > Prager University to spread the word:   
   >   
   >    
   >   
   >   
   > And there's this from Google:   
   > ************************************   
   > An Intelligent Design (ID) curriculum, primarily from the Discovery   
   > Institute and Sapience Institute , offers materials like textbooks   
   > (e.g., Discovering Intelligent Design), workbooks, and DVDs for   
   > homeschoolers and private schools, presenting biological and   
   > cosmological arguments for an intelligent cause behind life's   
   > complexity, often integrating ID concepts into biology or offering   
   > standalone courses for critical thinking on evolution, focusing on   
   > evidence for design in nature and questioning aspects of Darwinian   
   > evolution   
   > **************************************   
   >   
   > And you previously provided this link:   
   >    
      
   Their main push remains public schools and they seem to have removed   
   their home school lesson plan.  The likely reason for this is that their   
   wedge goals of recreating a theocracy that likely never existed isn't   
   really furthered by conning the rubes that have already been conned.   
   They need to generate enough public support to get a majority of   
   creationists involved with the scam, not just the hard core that have   
   already been convinced enough to be able to lie to themselves about the   
   issue.  Not only that, but if ID got taught honestly in these private   
   schools the kids would understand that the designer that actually exists   
   is not the Biblical designer.  It is likely why they decided not to   
   teach the ID scam junk in the public schools and resorted to the   
   obfuscation and denial to keep the kids as ignorant as possible so that   
   they might be able to persuade them to the cause as adults when they are   
   old enough so that they can lie to themselves and help them accomplish   
   the Wedge goals.   
      
   Ron Okimoto   
   >   
   >   
   >> At one time they had a home school lesson plan, but it   
   >> was mostly anti evolution and how that related to the families religious   
   >> beliefs.  Dembski was forced to apologize to his college students for   
   >> telling them that the earth may be older than a few thousand years old,   
   >> and that the flood may have been a local flood.  If he had not   
   >> apologized he would have been fired.  As it was his contract was not   
   >> renewed.   
   >>   
   >> The ID perps have been claiming that their ID science can be taught in   
   >> the public schools for nearly 30 years, but they have never produced a   
   >> public school lesson plan that presented what could be taught and how   
   >> they thought that it could be taught.  Even their home school lesson   
   >> plan did not teach much about the ID scam, and they openly claimed that   
   >> it was not suitable for public schools as a disclaimer.  That lesson   
   >> plan doesn't seem to be available any longer at their web site.  It   
   >> seemed to spend a lot of time trying to assure the parent that ID was   
   >> religiously kosher.  Their problem likely is that most of their   
   >> creationist support base (it has always been YEC) would not want to   
   >> teach their kids the "evidence" that the ID perps claim to have   
   >> supporting ID science.  It is all non Biblical, and old earth gap   
   >> denial.  YEC would not want to teach their kids the junk so that they   
   >> could place the denial into context with reality.  Just think what a   
   >> flop ID would be if they taught the Top Six honestly in the order in   
   >> which they must have occurred in this universe along with relevant   
   >> contextual information.   
   >>   
   >> Ron Okimoto   
   >>>   
   >>>   
   >>>> In fact, the ID perps doubled down on the bait and switch scam after   
   >>>> Dover, and they started claiming that the judges decision was wrong, and   
      
   [continued in next message]   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)