[continued from previous message]   
      
   Have there ever been any honest competent and informed IDiotic support   
   for the ID creationist bait and switch scam?  Some IDiotic creationists   
   were honest enough to quit when the bait and switch started to go down,   
   but how many kept supporting ID as bait?  How dishonest do you have to   
   be to remain an IDiot after the bait and switch has been going down for   
   over 2 decades.  By the time the bait and switch had been going down for   
   over 2 years it was evident that the only IDiots left in existence were   
   the ignorant, incompetent and or dishonest.  You were posting to ARN   
   when the bait and switch went down, so you know what kind of IDiots kept   
   supporting the scam after the bait and switch became the only way   
   forward to support the creationist Wedge goals.  Really, I did not start   
   calling the scam artists ID perps until late 2004 just before Dover hit   
   the fan.  It was obvious that the ID perps were never going to stop   
   running the bait and switch on creationist rubes like yourself.  The   
   bait and switch had gone down a couple dozen times by then.  How   
   competent and honest did Kalk, Bill and yourself turn out to be once the   
   ID perps virtually committed suicide by putting out the Top Six in the   
   order in which they must have occurred in this universe?  Once Kalk and   
   Bill realized that they had never wanted any ID science to ever have   
   been produced they quit the ID scam.  Kalk claimed that he was going to   
   concentrate on other aspects of his religious beliefs and Bill just   
   claimed that he had never supported the ID scam.  Bill is the IDiot that   
   claimed that he knew some real ID scientists that had real ID science,   
   but he never put any of them forward for evaluation.   
      
   That is how lame creationism became when they changed the name of what   
   they were doing from creationism to intelligent design in Of Pandas and   
   People after the Supreme court determined that scientific creationism   
   wasn't any science worth teaching in the public schools.  Of Pandas and   
   People was written to support creationism without the Bible verses and   
   Biblical mythology so that it could be used to teach creationism in the   
   public schools.  The Arkansas court case had determined that there were   
   no suitable materials that could be used to teach scientific creationism   
   in the public schools because all the creationist literature was laced   
   with Bible verses and Biblical mythology.  Of Pandas and people was   
   supposed to rectify that situation, but it turned out that what the   
   scientific creationists had to teach wasn't any science worth teaching.   
      
   >   
   > This approach is something like a creationist dismissing evolution using   
   > copy-paste attacks on Piltdown Man, Haeckel’s Embryos etc.   
      
   Lying about reality isn't going to change reality.   
      
   >   
   > Ron, if you imagine yourself to be protector and champion against the   
   > evil of ID, I recommend a different approach.   
      
   I am not a protector or champion of anything.  Nothing that I agree with   
   needs protecting.  The ID scam was never a challenge to real science   
   once it became a religious scam that they were running on their own   
   creationist support base.  The ID perps became the major influence in   
   keeping creationism out of the public schools.  The rubes had never   
   listened to the science side, but when the guys who sold you the scam   
   tell you not to teach it most of the rubes have enough of a clue to   
   fold.  Nearly all of the creationist rubes dropped the effort instead of   
   bend over for the obfuscation and denial switch scam.  The bait and   
   switch is still going down.  Luskin is coauthor of the current teach ID   
   scam propaganda that claims that the Dover decision was wrong, and that   
   even though ID was found to be illegal to teach in the public schools of   
   Dover that it is still legal to teach the junk in the public schools of   
   other states.  Luskin is the current ID perp designated to run the bait   
   and switch on any hapless rube that believes what he wrote.   
      
   >   
   > On a good day you demonstrate expertise and ability to meaningfully   
   > engage and contribute. Stop blowing smoke and give us more good days.   
      
   Lying about reality isn't going to change reality.  I have never blown   
   smoke.  That is all that the ID perps ever had, and the bait and switch   
   scam that they are running is evidence of that.  Really, no one else but   
   the ID perps are claiming that ID can be taught in the public schools at   
   this time.  I know of no other organizations that claim that ID can be   
   taught in the public schools.  Luskin is going to run the bait and   
   switch scam on the Arizona legislator that currently wants to teach ID   
   in the Arizona public schools, and you will keep lying to yourself about   
   reality.   
      
   Ron Okimoto   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)