From: rokimoto557@gmail.com   
      
   On 12/29/2025 10:55 PM, MarkE wrote:   
   > On 30/12/2025 1:49 pm, David Canzi wrote:   
   >> On 12/27/25 06:27, MarkE wrote:   
   >>> On 24/12/2025 7:27 am, John Harshman wrote:   
   >>>> You're just avoiding the question, which I will repeat:   
   >>>>   
   >>>> But how many genetic changes do you think were necessary to turn the   
   >>>> human-chimp ancestor into a modern human? Give me a ballpark.   
   >>>>   
   >>>   
   >>> Much more than "a few thousand", i.e. orders of magnitude.   
   >>   
   >> Can you say something actually quantitative, ie. something of the   
   >> form x plus or minus y percent, and if you do this, can you show   
   >> how you calculated it?   
   >>   
   >> It's your job to justify your claim.  If you haven't made the effort   
   >> to justify your claim, nobody owes you the effort to justify their   
   >> non-agreement with your claim.  You're freeloading.   
   >>   
   >   
   > I acknowledge that I can't put a number on it. Partly because of a lack   
   > of expertise/ability, and partly because, well, who can? But that does   
   > not mean it doesn't exist.   
      
   Just as Behe was never able to define well matched nor the number of   
   parts that would be needed to make a system his type of IC.  Once he   
   acknowledged that IC systems could evolve by natural mechanisms he had   
   to start yammering about things that he could not determine actually   
   existed.  It is why he resorted to his 3 neutral mutations stupidity   
   when he knew that he never wanted to look for them, and never wanted to   
   varify that they existed in his IC systems.   
      
   Ron Okimoto   
   >   
   > See my more recent post "The information problem", where I attempt to   
   > grapple with this some more.   
   >   
   > I think it's a fascinating area, even setting aside the creation/   
   > evolution arguments. A single fertilised egg dividing and exponentially   
   > multiplying to create an new and unique human should always astonish us,   
   > no matter how much we may understand the processes involved.   
   >   
   > What do you think?   
   >   
   > _______   
   >   
   >   
   > FROM ONE CELL TO A HUMAN BEING: AN OVERVIEW OF THE PROCESS AND ITS   
   > MYSTERIES   
   >   
   > *Fertilisation* begins when a sperm and ovum fuse to form a single cell:   
   > the *zygote*. In that moment, a new, genetically unique human organism   
   > exists. Yet nothing visible distinguishes this cell from countless   
   > others. What follows is one of the most extraordinary processes known in   
   > nature.   
   >   
   > ---   
   >   
   > ## 1. Exponential division without growth: cleavage   
   >   
   > Within hours, the zygote begins dividing: 1 cell becomes 2, then 4, 8,   
   > 16, and so on. These early divisions, called *cleavage*, are remarkable   
   > because the total size of the embryo does not increase. Instead, the   
   > original cytoplasm is partitioned into ever-smaller cells.   
   >   
   > Key features:   
   >   
   > * Division is rapid and tightly synchronized.   
   > * Cells remain enclosed in the original outer membrane.   
   > * The embryo reaches ~100 cells in a few days.   
   >   
   > *What is striking:*   
   > All cells initially appear equivalent, yet they are already on   
   > trajectories that will lead to radically different fates.   
   >   
   > *What we do not fully understand:*   
   > How early asymmetries—subtle differences in molecular concentrations,   
   > mechanics, and timing—bias later cell fate decisions with such reliability.   
   >   
   > ---   
   >   
   > ## 2. Self-organisation and implantation: the blastocyst   
   >   
   > After several days, the embryo reorganises into a *blastocyst*—a hollow   
   > structure with:   
   >   
   > * an *inner cell mass* (which will become the body),   
   > * and an *outer layer* (which will help form the placenta).   
   >   
   > The blastocyst implants into the uterine wall, establishing a   
   > biochemical dialogue with the mother that allows pregnancy to continue.   
   >   
   > *What is striking:*   
   > This organisation emerges without a central controller. Cells “decide”   
   > their roles through local interactions, gene regulation, and physical   
   > constraints.   
   >   
   > *What we do not fully understand:*   
   > How global structure arises so robustly from local rules, and why   
   > implantation succeeds or fails so often despite apparently normal embryos.   
   >   
   > ---   
   >   
   > ## 3. The body plan appears: gastrulation   
   >   
   > Around the third week, the embryo undergoes *gastrulation*, often called   
   > *the most important event in your life*. A simple sheet of cells folds   
   > and rearranges to form three foundational layers:   
   >   
   > * *Ectoderm* → nervous system, skin   
   > * *Mesoderm* → muscle, bone, blood, heart   
   > * *Endoderm* → gut, liver, lungs   
   >   
   >  From this point onward, the basic body axes—head to tail, back to   
   > front, left to right—are established.   
   >   
   > *What is striking:*   
   > A consistent human body plan emerges from dramatic cellular movements   
   > that look, under a microscope, almost chaotic.   
   >   
   > *What we do not fully understand:*   
   > How genetic instructions, chemical gradients, and mechanical forces are   
   > integrated in real time to yield precise, repeatable anatomy.   
   >   
   > ---   
   >   
   > ## 4. Differentiation and organ formation: organogenesis   
   >   
   > Cells now differentiate into hundreds of specialised types and assemble   
   > into organs. Neural cells wire themselves into circuits. Blood vessels   
      
   [continued in next message]   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)