From: rokimoto557@gmail.com   
      
   On 12/29/2025 9:54 PM, MarkE wrote:   
   > To reiterate and focus previous discussion:   
   >   
   > 1. A human is a system of staggering functional complexity* (as are   
   > many/all living things)   
   >   
   > 2. The claim that the human genome is 10% functional gives total genomic   
   > information to specify this system as only 80 megabytes:   
   >   
   >      3.2 billion base pairs x 10% x 2 / 8   
   >   
   > Of course, nonlinear information translations, fractal formation of   
   > capillary networks etc are involved in development from the zygote. Even   
   > allowing for this and other mechanisms, what amount of information is   
   > needed to specify a human?   
   >   
   > My argument is, the genome alone is nowhere near enough, from what we   
   > know of the information needed to specify vastly simpler systems   
   > designed by humans, even with the acknowledged difficulties in making   
   > comparisons.   
   >   
   > Therefore, I propose that the ovum itself as a physico-chemical whole   
   > must also be a major source of developmental information embedded in a   
   > three-dimensional distribution and structure of complex molecules   
   > (cytoplasm, organelles, membrane; RNA, proteins, lipids, sugars).   
      
   That the egg cell is required for reproduction has been understood for a   
   couple of centuries.  A functioning cell has been known to be required   
   to develop a functioning organism for a very long time.  Just putting   
   DNA into a lipid bubble will not result in a functioning cell and my   
   guess is that it has never seriously been considered to be possible.   
   Even the artificial genome developers have to put their genome into a   
   bacterium that they have removed the DNA out of.   
      
   You do not seem to understand how descent with modification, biological   
   evolution, works.  New genetic variants and new combinations of genetic   
   variants inherited through sexual reproduction all have to work within   
   what is already working to create the organism from a fertilized egg   
   cell.  It is the way that reproduction has worked since the first cells   
   evolved a means to make sure an adequate set of genes was transferred   
   into each daughter cell of mitotic cell division.   
      
   Every genetic change has to be able to develop a human being from that   
   single fertilized egg cell or it is not propagated in the population.   
   This has been going on for billions of years.  Every change has to work   
   within what is already working.  That is how biological evolution works.   
     Eukaryotes evolved sex and gamete production over a billion years ago   
   as single celled organisms, and the human egg cell is the result of over   
   a billion years of change.  Every change had to work within what was   
   already working.   
      
   Ron Okimoto   
      
   > My deduction is, the ovum contains a large amount of information for the   
   > development of a "generic" human (i.e. the subsystems listed below*);   
   > the DNA also (presumably) contains information for the development of a   
   > generic human, as well as most/all the information for family traits.   
   >   
   > This is not an argument from incredulity, rather, the burden of proof   
   > rests with the claim that 80 MB in DNA is sufficient. Read the summary   
   > below carefully, noting it is just that: a summary and tip of an iceberg   
   > of a system of "deeply interdependent, multiscale biological   
   > architecture, in which trillions of components are dynamically regulated   
   > with molecular precision to maintain stability, adaptability".   
   >   
   > If my contention is correct - to any degree - then this would obviously   
   > have fundamental implications for the current theory of evolution, and   
   > indeed our understanding of ourselves and life itself.   
   >   
   > No denying that this appears to be a grandiose claim. Counterarguments   
   > welcome.   
   >   
   > PS   
   >   
   > If I understand correctly, the mainstream view of development does   
   > consider genome + maternal provisioning + epigenetic state + physics +   
   > environment, with heredity dominated by DNA sequence. A key question   
   > then is, does the egg carry substantial additional *heritable*   
   > specification for the “generic" human that is not already accounted for   
   > as a downstream product of the genome and known inheritance mechanisms?   
   >   
   > _______   
   >   
   >   
   > * The human body comprises 11 major physiological systems, each   
   > exhibiting high functional complexity through scale, precision, and   
   > cross-system integration.   
   >   
   > 1. The *nervous system* provides rapid information processing, with ~86   
   > billion neurons and ~10¹⁴–10¹⁵ synapses enabling millisecond-scale   
   > control while consuming ~20% of resting metabolic energy. Humans possess   
   > ~2–3× more cortical neurons than great apes, and this difference alone   
   > implies orders of magnitude greater combinatorial processing capacity,   
   > given synaptic scaling; human prefrontal cortex expansion to ~25–30% of   
   > the total cortex gives disproportionately dense long-range connections   
   > enabling abstract reasoning, symbolic thought, counterfactual planning,   
   > and recursive language.   
   >   
   > 2. The *circulatory system* sustains organism-wide transport via   
   > ~100,000 km of blood vessels and a heart that beats ~100,000 times per   
   > day, continuously distributing oxygen, nutrients, hormones, and immune   
   > cells.   
   >   
      
   [continued in next message]   
      
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