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   talk.origins      Evolution versus creationism (sometimes      142,579 messages   

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   Message 142,143 of 142,579   
   MarkE to All   
   You're gonna love this... (1/2)   
   07 Jan 26 01:13:42   
   
   From: me22over7@gmail.com   
      
   I've recently claimed here that the 80 megabytes of information in the   
   functional portion of the human genome is wildly insufficient to specify   
   the development of a human [1] into the system that is us [2]. I've   
   suggested that the "missing" information must be located in the ovum's   
   cytoplasm, organelles and membrane.   
      
   I've directly asked a number of contributors here if they believe 80 MB   
   is sufficient to specify a human. This has generally been met with   
   silence. I can understand why, after an even cursory consideration of   
   [1] and [2]. Moreover, the implications of this for evolutionary theory   
   and biology are profound.   
      
   Anyway, it seems that ID agrees with me. This may not help convince you,   
   but I'm encouraged that others think this is an issue that needs attention.   
      
   If you're unfamiliar, what you may find interesting is ID's proposed   
   solution: an "immaterial genome", with reference to Neoplatonism.   
      
   I'm not discounting that position, but do find it surprising! Would this   
   be a new creationist category, something like Continuous Creation? Some   
   may have less complimentary suggestions.   
      
   Anyway, enjoy (Ron, you may need medical attention after reading these):   
      
   https://scienceandculture.com/2025/05/the-immaterial-genome-rich   
   rd-sternbergs-labor-of-love/   
      
   https://scienceandculture.com/2025/04/the-math-behind-the-immaterial-genome/   
      
      
   ______________   
      
      
   [1] FROM ONE CELL TO A HUMAN BEING: AN OVERVIEW OF THE PROCESS AND ITS   
   MYSTERIES   
      
   *Fertilisation* begins when a sperm and ovum fuse to form a single cell:   
   the *zygote*. In that moment, a new, genetically unique human organism   
   exists. Yet nothing visible distinguishes this cell from countless   
   others. What follows is one of the most extraordinary processes known in   
   nature.   
      
   ---   
      
   ## 1. Exponential division without growth: cleavage   
      
   Within hours, the zygote begins dividing: 1 cell becomes 2, then 4, 8,   
   16, and so on. These early divisions, called *cleavage*, are remarkable   
   because the total size of the embryo does not increase. Instead, the   
   original cytoplasm is partitioned into ever-smaller cells.   
      
   Key features:   
      
   * Division is rapid and tightly synchronized.   
   * Cells remain enclosed in the original outer membrane.   
   * The embryo reaches ~100 cells in a few days.   
      
   *What is striking:*   
   All cells initially appear equivalent, yet they are already on   
   trajectories that will lead to radically different fates.   
      
   *What we do not fully understand:*   
   How early asymmetries—subtle differences in molecular concentrations,   
   mechanics, and timing—bias later cell fate decisions with such reliability.   
      
   ---   
      
   ## 2. Self-organisation and implantation: the blastocyst   
      
   After several days, the embryo reorganises into a *blastocyst*—a hollow   
   structure with:   
      
   * an *inner cell mass* (which will become the body),   
   * and an *outer layer* (which will help form the placenta).   
      
   The blastocyst implants into the uterine wall, establishing a   
   biochemical dialogue with the mother that allows pregnancy to continue.   
      
   *What is striking:*   
   This organisation emerges without a central controller. Cells “decide”   
   their roles through local interactions, gene regulation, and physical   
   constraints.   
      
   *What we do not fully understand:*   
   How global structure arises so robustly from local rules, and why   
   implantation succeeds or fails so often despite apparently normal embryos.   
      
   ---   
      
   ## 3. The body plan appears: gastrulation   
      
   Around the third week, the embryo undergoes *gastrulation*, often called   
   *the most important event in your life*. A simple sheet of cells folds   
   and rearranges to form three foundational layers:   
      
   * *Ectoderm* → nervous system, skin   
   * *Mesoderm* → muscle, bone, blood, heart   
   * *Endoderm* → gut, liver, lungs   
      
    From this point onward, the basic body axes—head to tail, back to   
   front, left to right—are established.   
      
   *What is striking:*   
   A consistent human body plan emerges from dramatic cellular movements   
   that look, under a microscope, almost chaotic.   
      
   *What we do not fully understand:*   
   How genetic instructions, chemical gradients, and mechanical forces are   
   integrated in real time to yield precise, repeatable anatomy.   
      
   ---   
      
   ## 4. Differentiation and organ formation: organogenesis   
      
   Cells now differentiate into hundreds of specialised types and assemble   
   into organs. Neural cells wire themselves into circuits. Blood vessels   
   branch through tissues. The heart begins beating while still forming.   
      
   Cell numbers increase exponentially, eventually reaching *tens of   
   trillions*, yet:   
      
   * proportions are maintained,   
   * left–right symmetry is mostly preserved,   
   * errors are detected and corrected.   
      
   *What is striking:*   
   No cell “knows” the whole plan, yet the whole plan reliably appears.   
      
   *What we do not fully understand:*   
      
   * How large-scale structures (like vascular trees or neural   
   connectivity) are specified without explicit blueprints   
   * How errors are corrected without derailing development   
   * How timing is coordinated across vastly different scales   
      
   ---   
      
   ## 5. Uniqueness emerges   
      
   Although humans share a common body plan, no two individuals are the   
   same. Small genetic differences, epigenetic marks, maternal factors, and   
      
   [continued in next message]   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)   

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