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|    talk.origins    |    Evolution versus creationism (sometimes    |    142,579 messages    |
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|    Message 142,143 of 142,579    |
|    MarkE to All    |
|    You're gonna love this... (1/2)    |
|    07 Jan 26 01:13:42    |
      From: me22over7@gmail.com              I've recently claimed here that the 80 megabytes of information in the       functional portion of the human genome is wildly insufficient to specify       the development of a human [1] into the system that is us [2]. I've       suggested that the "missing" information must be located in the ovum's       cytoplasm, organelles and membrane.              I've directly asked a number of contributors here if they believe 80 MB       is sufficient to specify a human. This has generally been met with       silence. I can understand why, after an even cursory consideration of       [1] and [2]. Moreover, the implications of this for evolutionary theory       and biology are profound.              Anyway, it seems that ID agrees with me. This may not help convince you,       but I'm encouraged that others think this is an issue that needs attention.              If you're unfamiliar, what you may find interesting is ID's proposed       solution: an "immaterial genome", with reference to Neoplatonism.              I'm not discounting that position, but do find it surprising! Would this       be a new creationist category, something like Continuous Creation? Some       may have less complimentary suggestions.              Anyway, enjoy (Ron, you may need medical attention after reading these):              https://scienceandculture.com/2025/05/the-immaterial-genome-rich       rd-sternbergs-labor-of-love/              https://scienceandculture.com/2025/04/the-math-behind-the-immaterial-genome/                     ______________                     [1] FROM ONE CELL TO A HUMAN BEING: AN OVERVIEW OF THE PROCESS AND ITS       MYSTERIES              *Fertilisation* begins when a sperm and ovum fuse to form a single cell:       the *zygote*. In that moment, a new, genetically unique human organism       exists. Yet nothing visible distinguishes this cell from countless       others. What follows is one of the most extraordinary processes known in       nature.              ---              ## 1. Exponential division without growth: cleavage              Within hours, the zygote begins dividing: 1 cell becomes 2, then 4, 8,       16, and so on. These early divisions, called *cleavage*, are remarkable       because the total size of the embryo does not increase. Instead, the       original cytoplasm is partitioned into ever-smaller cells.              Key features:              * Division is rapid and tightly synchronized.       * Cells remain enclosed in the original outer membrane.       * The embryo reaches ~100 cells in a few days.              *What is striking:*       All cells initially appear equivalent, yet they are already on       trajectories that will lead to radically different fates.              *What we do not fully understand:*       How early asymmetries—subtle differences in molecular concentrations,       mechanics, and timing—bias later cell fate decisions with such reliability.              ---              ## 2. Self-organisation and implantation: the blastocyst              After several days, the embryo reorganises into a *blastocyst*—a hollow       structure with:              * an *inner cell mass* (which will become the body),       * and an *outer layer* (which will help form the placenta).              The blastocyst implants into the uterine wall, establishing a       biochemical dialogue with the mother that allows pregnancy to continue.              *What is striking:*       This organisation emerges without a central controller. Cells “decide”       their roles through local interactions, gene regulation, and physical       constraints.              *What we do not fully understand:*       How global structure arises so robustly from local rules, and why       implantation succeeds or fails so often despite apparently normal embryos.              ---              ## 3. The body plan appears: gastrulation              Around the third week, the embryo undergoes *gastrulation*, often called       *the most important event in your life*. A simple sheet of cells folds       and rearranges to form three foundational layers:              * *Ectoderm* → nervous system, skin       * *Mesoderm* → muscle, bone, blood, heart       * *Endoderm* → gut, liver, lungs               From this point onward, the basic body axes—head to tail, back to       front, left to right—are established.              *What is striking:*       A consistent human body plan emerges from dramatic cellular movements       that look, under a microscope, almost chaotic.              *What we do not fully understand:*       How genetic instructions, chemical gradients, and mechanical forces are       integrated in real time to yield precise, repeatable anatomy.              ---              ## 4. Differentiation and organ formation: organogenesis              Cells now differentiate into hundreds of specialised types and assemble       into organs. Neural cells wire themselves into circuits. Blood vessels       branch through tissues. The heart begins beating while still forming.              Cell numbers increase exponentially, eventually reaching *tens of       trillions*, yet:              * proportions are maintained,       * left–right symmetry is mostly preserved,       * errors are detected and corrected.              *What is striking:*       No cell “knows” the whole plan, yet the whole plan reliably appears.              *What we do not fully understand:*              * How large-scale structures (like vascular trees or neural       connectivity) are specified without explicit blueprints       * How errors are corrected without derailing development       * How timing is coordinated across vastly different scales              ---              ## 5. Uniqueness emerges              Although humans share a common body plan, no two individuals are the       same. Small genetic differences, epigenetic marks, maternal factors, and              [continued in next message]              --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05        * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)    |
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