From: 69jpil69@gmail.com   
      
   On Wed, 7 Jan 2026 23:38:12 +1100, MarkE  wrote:   
      
   >On 7/01/2026 11:16 pm, jillery wrote:   
   >> On Wed, 7 Jan 2026 01:13:42 +1100, MarkE  wrote:   
   >>    
   >>> I've recently claimed here that the 80 megabytes of information in the   
   >>> functional portion of the human genome is wildly insufficient to specify   
   >>> the development of a human [1] into the system that is us [2]. I've   
   >>> suggested that the "missing" information must be located in the ovum's   
   >>> cytoplasm, organelles and membrane.   
   >>>   
   >>> I've directly asked a number of contributors here if they believe 80 MB   
   >>> is sufficient to specify a human. This has generally been met with   
   >>> silence. I can understand why, after an even cursory consideration of   
   >>> [1] and [2]. Moreover, the implications of this for evolutionary theory   
   >>> and biology are profound.   
   >>    
   >>    
   >>    
   >> That silence is the sound of one hand clapping, as all wait for you to   
   >> say on what basis you think 80 MB is *insufficient* to specify a   
   >> human.   
   >   
   >Do you think 80 MB is sufficient to specify [1] and [2]?   
      
      
      
   Why avoid supporting your own claim?  If I say it's sufficient, will   
   you then demand I provide evidence to show that it is, so you can   
   continue to avoid saying on what basis you think 80 MB is   
   insufficient?   
      
      
      
   >>> Anyway, it seems that ID agrees with me. This may not help convince you,   
   >>> but I'm encouraged that others think this is an issue that needs attention.   
   >>>   
   >>> If you're unfamiliar, what you may find interesting is ID's proposed   
   >>> solution: an "immaterial genome", with reference to Neoplatonism.   
   >>>   
   >>> I'm not discounting that position, but do find it surprising! Would this   
   >>> be a new creationist category, something like Continuous Creation? Some   
   >>> may have less complimentary suggestions.   
   >>>   
   >>> Anyway, enjoy (Ron, you may need medical attention after reading these):   
   >>>   
   >>> https://scienceandculture.com/2025/05/the-immaterial-genome-   
   ichard-sternbergs-labor-of-love/   
   >>>   
   >>> https://scienceandculture.com/2025/04/the-math-behind-the-im   
   aterial-genome/   
   >>>   
   >>>   
   >>> ______________   
   >>>   
   >>>   
   >>> [1] FROM ONE CELL TO A HUMAN BEING: AN OVERVIEW OF THE PROCESS AND ITS   
   >>> MYSTERIES   
   >>>   
   >>> *Fertilisation* begins when a sperm and ovum fuse to form a single cell:   
   >>> the *zygote*. In that moment, a new, genetically unique human organism   
   >>> exists. Yet nothing visible distinguishes this cell from countless   
   >>> others. What follows is one of the most extraordinary processes known in   
   >>> nature.   
   >>>   
   >>> ---   
   >>>   
   >>> ## 1. Exponential division without growth: cleavage   
   >>>   
   >>> Within hours, the zygote begins dividing: 1 cell becomes 2, then 4, 8,   
   >>> 16, and so on. These early divisions, called *cleavage*, are remarkable   
   >>> because the total size of the embryo does not increase. Instead, the   
   >>> original cytoplasm is partitioned into ever-smaller cells.   
   >>>   
   >>> Key features:   
   >>>   
   >>> * Division is rapid and tightly synchronized.   
   >>> * Cells remain enclosed in the original outer membrane.   
   >>> * The embryo reaches ~100 cells in a few days.   
   >>>   
   >>> *What is striking:*   
   >>> All cells initially appear equivalent, yet they are already on   
   >>> trajectories that will lead to radically different fates.   
   >>>   
   >>> *What we do not fully understand:*   
   >>> How early asymmetries—subtle differences in molecular concentrations,   
   >>> mechanics, and timing—bias later cell fate decisions with such   
   reliability.   
   >>>   
   >>> ---   
   >>>   
   >>> ## 2. Self-organisation and implantation: the blastocyst   
   >>>   
   >>> After several days, the embryo reorganises into a *blastocyst*—a hollow   
   >>> structure with:   
   >>>   
   >>> * an *inner cell mass* (which will become the body),   
   >>> * and an *outer layer* (which will help form the placenta).   
   >>>   
   >>> The blastocyst implants into the uterine wall, establishing a   
   >>> biochemical dialogue with the mother that allows pregnancy to continue.   
   >>>   
   >>> *What is striking:*   
   >>> This organisation emerges without a central controller. Cells “decide”   
   >>> their roles through local interactions, gene regulation, and physical   
   >>> constraints.   
   >>>   
   >>> *What we do not fully understand:*   
   >>> How global structure arises so robustly from local rules, and why   
   >>> implantation succeeds or fails so often despite apparently normal embryos.   
   >>>   
   >>> ---   
   >>>   
   >>> ## 3. The body plan appears: gastrulation   
   >>>   
   >>> Around the third week, the embryo undergoes *gastrulation*, often called   
   >>> *the most important event in your life*. A simple sheet of cells folds   
   >>> and rearranges to form three foundational layers:   
   >>>   
   >>> * *Ectoderm* ? nervous system, skin   
   >>> * *Mesoderm* ? muscle, bone, blood, heart   
   >>> * *Endoderm* ? gut, liver, lungs   
   >>>   
   >>>  From this point onward, the basic body axes—head to tail, back to   
   >>> front, left to right—are established.   
   >>>   
   >>> *What is striking:*   
   >>> A consistent human body plan emerges from dramatic cellular movements   
   >>> that look, under a microscope, almost chaotic.   
   >>>   
   >>> *What we do not fully understand:*   
   >>> How genetic instructions, chemical gradients, and mechanical forces are   
   >>> integrated in real time to yield precise, repeatable anatomy.   
   >>>   
   >>> ---   
   >>>   
   >>> ## 4. Differentiation and organ formation: organogenesis   
   >>>   
      
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