From: rokimoto557@gmail.com   
      
   On 1/18/2026 4:44 AM, MarkE wrote:   
   > On 18/01/2026 3:50 am, RonO wrote:   
   >> On 1/16/2026 11:27 PM, MarkE wrote:   
   >>> On 17/01/2026 3:26 am, RonO wrote:   
   >>>> On 1/15/2026 7:27 PM, MarkE wrote:   
   >>>>> On 15/01/2026 3:01 pm, RonO wrote:   
   >>>>>> On 1/14/2026 7:49 PM, MarkE wrote:   
   >>>>>>> On 15/01/2026 12:41 pm, MarkE wrote:   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>    
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>> Would this be an accurate assessment of where our discussion is at?   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>> With your position, you are in effect affirming the so-called   
   >>>>>>>> central dogma of biology, i.e. information flows sequentially   
   >>>>>>>> from DNA → RNA → protein, and not in reverse.   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>> I'm suggesting instead something along the lines of Dennis   
   >>>>>>>> Noble. If I understand correctly, he accepts this biochemical   
   >>>>>>>> pipeline, but rejects that DNA is the primary or privileged   
   >>>>>>>> source of biological causation. Rather, he argues that   
   >>>>>>>> biological systems are causally bidirectional and distributed   
   >>>>>>>> across multiple levels of organisation.   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>> If Noble was shown to be right, would my logic then be valid?   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> PS   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> AI summarises nicely why this matters:   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> * Why This Is Devastating to Gene-Centric Darwinism   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> Traditional Darwinism assumes:   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> Mutations in DNA → changes in proteins → changes in traits →   
   >>>>>>> selection   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> Noble shows that causation also runs:   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> physiology → cellular state → chromatin structure → gene   
   >>>>>>> expression → mutation bias   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> So the genome is not an independent driver; it is embedded in a   
   >>>>>>> self- regulating system.   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> This means:   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> Evolution does not act only on genes   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> Development does not read a script   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> Information is not stored only in DNA   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> The fertilized egg already contains a rich informational   
   >>>>>>> architecture that Darwinism never explains.   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> This is just wrong about Darwinism if what is being claimed is   
   >>>>>> just evolution by natural selection.  Natural selection selects on   
   >>>>>> the whole organism.  Any genetic change has to work within the   
   >>>>>> system that is already working in order to produce an organism   
   >>>>>> that has a viable chance of being selected for.  This means that   
   >>>>>> the genome has never been an independent driver of natural   
   >>>>>> selection.  Every genetic change has to work with the existing   
   >>>>>> cellular information in order to correctly replicate and for the   
   >>>>>> successful development of an individual from a single fertilized   
   >>>>>> egg cell.  This just means that the genome has never been expected   
   >>>>>> to be an independent driver of biological evolution.  It has   
   >>>>>> always been known that the genome has to function in a functional   
   >>>>>> cell.  If that is all Noble is claiming then he isn't claiming   
   >>>>>> much of anything that is going to help you at all. All it means is   
   >>>>>> that the ID perps and you are not dealing with the information   
   >>>>>> that you need to be dealing with, and you will not be dealing with   
   >>>>>> that information in any meaningful way because you can't quantify   
   >>>>>> it and you can't even identify what a lot of it is.   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> Ron Okimoto   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>    
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> Noble (and conventional biology, according to your assertion) say   
   >>>>> that "biological systems are causally bidirectional and distributed   
   >>>>> across multiple levels of organisation", i.e. the causal/control   
   >>>>> flow is   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>>     -> protein -> DNA -> mRNA ->   
   >>>>>    |                            |   
   >>>>>     --------------<-------------   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> Regardless of evolution, "digital" information is stored in the DNA   
   >>>>> (and RNA), and "analogue" information is stored in the proteins   
   >>>>> (and cytoplasm, organelles, membrane, sugars etc).   
   >>>>   
   >>>> Why do you keep insisting that the information is digital?  Digital   
   >>>> programing was cooked up to transfer information, but life has it's   
   >>>> own information transfer system.  It is the chemistry and physical   
   >>>> properties of the matter involved.  That is what you are missing in   
   >>>> your protein to DNA to mRNA to protein scenario.  It is what makes   
   >>>> the cell, the literal structure and chemical make up of the cell,   
   >>>> that the DNA requires to replicate new cells and develop new types   
   >>>> of cells.   
   >>>>   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> Yes, DNA codes directly for proteins in a way that protein does not   
   >>>>> directly code for DNA, however, despite this, "DNA is not the   
   >>>>> primary or privileged source of biological causation".   
   >>>>   
   >>>> DNA does not directly code for protein, and protein does not   
   >>>> directly code for DNA. At this time life exists as cells.  The vast   
   >>>> majority of living things on earth are still microbial single   
   >>>> cells.  Microbes continue to be the greatest success story of life   
   >>>> on earth.  Humans continue to house more microbes than human cells   
      
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