From: me22over7@gmail.com   
      
   On 20/01/2026 3:48 am, Mark Isaak wrote:   
      
   ...   
      
   >> No. I'm observing that the difference between chimps and humans in   
   >> terms of what either can and have accomplished is self-evidently   
   >> profoundly greater for humans than chimps: civilisation, spaceflight,   
   >> surgery, symphonies, semiconductors, string theory, and sandwiches.   
   >>   
   >> To be sure, human knowledge and achievement has been a cumulative,   
   >> cultural process, but even that relies on the innate capacity of   
   >> individuals.   
   >>   
   >> Regardless of how we might quantify this difference, it is very large   
   >> and therefore needs explanation.   
   >>   
   >> Would you agree?   
   >   
   > What you're saying, and I agree, is that the substantive differences   
   > between humans and chimps, at least the differences which account for   
   > humans' great achievements, are (1) language, including especially   
   > written language, and (2) cultural cohesion.   
   >   
   > Where I disagree with you is your claim that those two differences are   
   > extreme. First, chimpanzees already have culture. I don't see any   
   > qualitative differences between human and chip culture besides language.   
   > And language is probably not a genetically huge difference. Chimps   
   > already have verbal communication. To reach human level, the common   
   > ancestor would need a few (like maybe half a dozen or less) advantageous   
   > mutations for recursive grammar, maybe a couple more for other aspects   
   > of our language, and a few more to adapt our vocal tract. This should   
   > not require several millions of years.   
      
   We have very different intuition on what's involved with the creation of   
   new and substantial functional complexity. To suggest that handful of   
   mutations could produce the change you describe suggests to me that   
   you've never created something with new and substantial functional   
   complexity yourself (not intended as an insult, but an explanation of   
   our very different perspectives).   
      
   >   
   > --   
   > Mark Isaak   
   > "Wisdom begins when you discover the difference between 'That   
   > doesn't make sense' and 'I don't understand.'" - Mary Doria Russell   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)