From: me22over7@gmail.com   
      
   On 30/01/2026 11:22 am, John Harshman wrote:   
   > On 1/29/26 3:36 PM, MarkE wrote:   
   >> On 30/01/2026 1:07 am, Ernest Major wrote:   
   >>> On 29/01/2026 11:37, MarkE wrote:   
   >>>> On 27/01/2026 11:41 am, John Harshman wrote:   
   >>>>> On 1/24/26 3:28 AM, MarkE wrote:   
   >>>>>> On 24/01/2026 1:54 am, John Harshman wrote:   
   >>>>>>> On 1/22/26 6:15 PM, MarkE wrote:   
   >>>>>>>> On 23/01/2026 1:31 am, John Harshman wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>> On 1/21/26 9:18 PM, MarkE wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>> On 22/01/2026 3:22 am, John Harshman wrote:   
   >>>>   
   >>>> ...   
   >>>>   
   >>>>>>>>> Now if you're interested in what makes an organism, without   
   >>>>>>>>> much regard for what kind of organism, you have a point that   
   >>>>>>>>> the ovum has various bits that must be in place in order to get   
   >>>>>>>>> the process of development going, and that there are many   
   >>>>>>>>> interactions between cells that are not directly controlled by   
   >>>>>>>>> the genome. But the source of the bits that interact is still   
   >>>>>>>>> the genome, at first the maternal genome and later the zygote's.   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> Certainly all proteins in the cell are produced from gene coding.   
   >>>>>> However, doesn't the following (for example) demonstrate that the   
   >>>>>> cytoplasm is in control and telling the DNA what to do (so to speak):   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> "It is concluded that whenever nuclei are introduced   
   >>>>>> experimentally into the cytoplasm of another cell, they very   
   >>>>>> quickly assume, in nearly every respect, the nuclear activity   
   >>>>>> characteristic of the host cell. In many instances, altered   
   >>>>>> function has been demonstrated in nuclei which subsequently   
   >>>>>> support normal development." [1]   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> Sure, that's because various transcription factors and such are in   
   >>>>> the cytoplasm, having been transcribed and translated from the   
   >>>>> previous nucleus. Differences between genomes result in differences   
   >>>>> in expression.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>>> Here's the critical logic: if the direction of control flow is bi-   
   >>>>>> directional, then to resolve a chicken-and-egg paradox, we must   
   >>>>>> conclude that information is initially present in both the nucleus   
   >>>>>> and extra-nuclear, in effectively digital and analogue form   
   >>>>>> respectively.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> "Digital" and "analog" are empty buzzwords in this context. But   
   >>>>> yes, proteins contain information, if that's what you mean. But   
   >>>>> that information is inherited, over the long term, in the form of DNA.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> On what basis do you deem these "empty buzzwords"?   
   >>>>   
   >>>> A digital information medium stores heritable information in   
   >>>> discrete symbolic sequences that are copied and decoded by rule-   
   >>>> based molecular machinery. The human genome at 3.2 billion base   
   >>>> pairs can be simply mapped into 6.4 billion bits of digital   
   >>>> information. Are we agreed that DNA can be accurately described as   
   >>>> *digital* information? (Along with its chemical and structural/   
   >>>> physical properties and interactions.)   
   >>>>   
   >>>> The ovum cytoplasm consists of a complex and dynamic distribution of   
   >>>> cellular structures. About 20,000–40,000 distinct molecular species   
   >>>> are present in the human ovum cytoplasm, including RNAs, proteins,   
   >>>> lipids, and metabolites. This a vast "factory/city" consisting of   
   >>>> approximately 10¹² protein molecules, 10⁷ ribosomes, 10⁷ mRNA   
   >>>> molecules, 10⁹ tRNA molecules, 10¹³ metabolite molecules, 10¹⁴   
   lipid   
   >>>> molecules. It is one of the most molecule-rich single cells in the   
   >>>> human body, pre-loaded to run early development before the embryonic   
   >>>> genome activates.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> If "analog" information is information represented by continuous,   
   >>>> smoothly varying physical quantities, where differences in magnitude   
   >>>> carry information rather than discrete symbols, the cytoplasm's   
   >>>> concentration, distribution, and structuring of these represents a   
   >>>> substantial amount of information that is, effectively, *analog*   
   >>>> information.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> The genome codes for the proteins and has other major influences on   
   >>>> the cytoplasm, to be sure. But there's a reason you can't clone a   
   >>>> human by implanting human DNA is chimp cell: there is essential   
   >>>> "analog" information in the cytoplasm.   
   >>>>   
   >>>   
   >>> When did you do that experiment?   
   >>>   
   >>> What experiments have been done don't support your hypothesis.   
   >>>   
   >>> -   
   >>> alias Ernest Major   
   >>>   
   >>   
   >> Folch 2009 bucardo live-birth-then-death   
   >> https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0093691X08007784   
   >>   
   >> Wang 2020 SCNT epigenetic reprogramming failures   
   >> https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/genetics/articles/10.3389/   
   >> fgene.2020.00205/full   
   >>   
   >> Jiang 2011 iSCNT depends on mtDNA / species compatibility   
   >> https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?   
   >> id=10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0014805   
   >   
   > Your claim was about humans and chimps. Try again.   
   >   
      
   The references demonstrate problems with very near species. It only gets   
   worse for humans/chimps. Try again.   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)