From: martinharran@gmail.com   
      
   On Thu, 29 Jan 2026 09:43:49 -0800, Mark Isaak   
    wrote:   
      
   >On 1/25/26 7:22 AM, Martin Harran wrote:   
      
   […]   
      
   >>> I got the impression it was you, Martin, who was arguing in favor of a   
   >>> literal first couple.  I have no idea why you would do that except to   
   >>> support some degree of biblical literalness.   
   >>   
   >> I wasn't arguing that human beings are *biologically* descended from a   
   >> unique couple - that would foolishly fly directly in the face of what   
   >> science has shown us; on the contrary, I was pointing out is that we   
   >> are *biologically* descended for may specific couples such as MT Eve's   
   >> parents, parents, grandparents. It is entirely possible, however, that   
   >> the ability to recognize good, to deliberately choose between good and   
   >> evil, did start from one of those couples we are descended from. That   
   >> is what the real message of Genesis is - humans acquiring the ability   
   >> to recognize good and to deliberately choose between good and evil.   
   >   
   >That is very different from how I read it. In my interpretation, you and   
   >I (and everyone else) are Adam and Eve. The story is about our   
   >relationship with God and about difficulties which arise from moral   
   >judgment. I see the story as virtually worthless if it is about past   
   >history.   
      
   It's not meant to be a record of past history but that doesn't mean it   
   can't refer to historical elements.   
      
   >   
   >> TBH, whether that started with one couple or more than one is a matter   
   >> of total indifference to me. I'm happy, however, to go along with the   
   >> Church's opinion that it did start with one couple as there is no   
   >> particular reason to reject that.   
   >   
   >So "question authority" does not apply to your church?   
      
   Of course it does. I constantly challenge Church authority where I   
   think it has got things wrong and getting it wrong has damaged people   
   - the historic handling of child abuse, contraception, the treatment   
   of women, the treatment of LGBT+ people, clericalism in general are   
   some examples.   
      
   I don't think that the Church's opinion that the recognition of God   
   started with one couple is of any great significance and certainly   
   doesn't harm anyone. I doubt that anybody other than theologians with   
   nothing better to do ever even gives it any thought other than   
   theologians with nothing better to do. I'm a very active participant   
   in my Church and I've never ever heard anyone mention it, the only   
   place I have ever encountered it is here in TO and in the recent book   
   I read that started this sub-thread. Even in that book it was a minor   
   item,   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)