From: martinharran@gmail.com   
      
   On Sat, 31 Jan 2026 22:12:35 -0500, Chris Thompson   
    wrote:   
      
   >Martin Harran wrote:   
   >> On Thu, 29 Jan 2026 00:43:20 -0500, Chris Thompson   
   >>  wrote:   
   >>   
   >>> Martin Harran wrote:   
   >>>> On Wed, 28 Jan 2026 00:00:53 -0500, Chris Thompson   
   >>>>  wrote:   
   >>>>   
   >>>>> Martin Harran wrote:   
   >>>>>> On Sun, 25 Jan 2026 22:48:49 -0500, Chris Thompson   
   >>>>>>  wrote:   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> Martin Harran wrote:   
   >>>>>>>> On Thu, 22 Jan 2026 22:34:44 -0500, Chris Thompson   
   >>>>>>>>  wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>> Martin Harran wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 21 Jan 2026 09:57:04 -0800, Vincent Maycock   
   >>>>>>>>>>  wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 21 Jan 2026 16:11:02 +0000, Martin Harran   
   >>>>>>>>>>>  wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>> snip   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> The ToE was developed   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> inside Darwin's head, Natural Selection is not something we can   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> directly examine by  putting it inside a test tube or picking up   
   to   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> measure or weigh - it is an intellectual explanation for what we   
   see   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> happening in evolution.   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>> Wow wow wow wow.   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>> And just like that, millions of hours of field studies and thousands   
   of   
   >>>>>>>>> peer-reviewed articles go POOF!   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>> As Thomas Edison put it "Genius is one percent inspiration,   
   >>>>>>>> ninety-nine percent perspiration." Darwin's identification of NS was   
   >>>>>>>> pure inspiration, prompting Huxley to declare"How incredibly stupid   
   >>>>>>>> not to have thought of that.". That inspiration, however, did not come   
   >>>>>>>> out of the blue, it came from the "perspiration" of many years of   
   >>>>>>>> studying evolution.   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>> The same applies to Lemaitre's identification of the Big Bang; it too   
   >>>>>>>> was inspiration after the "perspiration" of slogging through the works   
   >>>>>>>> of Einstein and Hubble; or Mnedel whose inspired identification of   
   >>>>>>>> traits working in pairs came from years of experimenting with peas.   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>> It seems to me that your remarks would be better pointed to Vincent   
   >>>>>>>> who doesn't seem to regard perspiration as particularly necessary.   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> I don't think so. Vincent was not the one who asserted we cannot   
   >>>>>>> directly observe and measure natural selection.   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> Nor did *I* say we could not observe it - on the contrary, I referred   
   >>>>>> to "what we see happening in evolution."   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> "Natural Selection is not something we can   
   >>>>> directly examine by  putting it inside a test tube or picking up to   
   >>>>> measure or weigh..."   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> So when you say we cannot directly examine or measure natural selection   
   >>>>> it means we can directly examine and measure natural selection.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> We can directly and measure the *impact* of natural election but we   
   >>>> cannot directly examine NS itself.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> For example, we can carry out a detailed physiological examination of   
   >>>> humans, chimps and bonobos and determine how much they physiologically   
   >>>> have in common.  We can directly examine their DNA and measure how   
   >>>> little difference there is between them. Both of those examinations   
   >>>> lead us to conclude that they are all descended from a common   
   >>>> ancestor. But that conclusion is a *logical* one i.e. one arrived at   
   >>>> using our intellect, not one found in a test tube or using some sort   
   >>>> of weighing or measuring device.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> In common with just about everyone else here on the side of science, I   
   >>>> regard science as not any sort of 'proof', it is *explanations* that   
   >>>> fit all the evidence we have and that may change if we get more   
   >>>> evidence. You seem to struggle with that.   
   >>>   
   >>> OK, I am glad you wrote that; I understand now why we seem to be   
   >>> speaking at cross purposes.   
   >>>   
   >>> The problem is that you don't know what natural selection is. If you   
   >>> wrote that on an exam in response to "Explain natural selection" I'm   
   >>> pretty certain you'd get zero points.   
   >>>   
   >>> So here's the quickie version:   
   >>>   
   >>> Natural selection is differential reproductive success. Reproductive   
   >>> success is usually approached in one of two ways. Absolute reproductive   
      
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