home bbs files messages ]

Forums before death by AOL, social media and spammers... "We can't have nice things"

   talk.origins      Evolution versus creationism (sometimes      142,579 messages   

[   << oldest   |   < older   |   list   |   newer >   |   newest >>   ]

   Message 142,410 of 142,579   
   MarkE to John Harshman   
   Re: Chimp to human evolution - Sandwalk    
   05 Feb 26 12:16:21   
   
   From: me22over7@gmail.com   
      
   On 5/02/2026 5:50 am, John Harshman wrote:   
   > On 2/4/26 3:59 AM, MarkE wrote:   
   >> On 4/02/2026 10:32 pm, MarkE wrote:   
   >>> On 3/02/2026 2:14 pm, John Harshman wrote:   
   >>>> On 2/2/26 6:05 PM, MarkE wrote:   
   >>>>> On 3/02/2026 12:11 pm, John Harshman wrote:   
   >>>>>> On 2/1/26 6:02 PM, MarkE wrote:   
   >>>>>>> On 2/02/2026 3:44 am, John Harshman wrote:   
   >>>>>>>> On 1/31/26 10:18 PM, MarkE wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>> On 1/02/2026 9:11 am, John Harshman wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>> On 1/31/26 1:58 AM, MarkE wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>> On 31/01/2026 2:37 pm, John Harshman wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/30/26 5:26 PM, MarkE wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 31/01/2026 5:56 am, John Harshman wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/29/26 9:54 PM, MarkE wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 30/01/2026 3:17 pm, John Harshman wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/29/26 7:57 PM, MarkE wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 30/01/2026 2:10 pm, John Harshman wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/29/26 6:40 PM, MarkE wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 30/01/2026 12:50 pm, John Harshman wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/29/26 5:31 PM, MarkE wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 30/01/2026 11:20 am, John Harshman wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/29/26 3:37 AM, MarkE wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 27/01/2026 11:41 am, John Harshman wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/24/26 3:28 AM, MarkE wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 24/01/2026 1:54 am, John Harshman wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/22/26 6:15 PM, MarkE wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 23/01/2026 1:31 am, John Harshman wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/21/26 9:18 PM, MarkE wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 22/01/2026 3:22 am, John Harshman wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ...   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Now if you're interested in what makes an   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> organism, without much regard for what kind   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of organism, you have a point that the ovum   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> has various bits that must be in place in   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> order to get the process of development   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> going, and that there are many interactions   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> between cells that are not directly   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> controlled by the genome. But the source of   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the bits that interact is still the genome,   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at first the maternal genome and later the   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> zygote's.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Certainly all proteins in the cell are produced   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from gene coding. However, doesn't the   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> following (for example) demonstrate that the   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cytoplasm is in control and telling the DNA   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what to do (so to speak):   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "It is concluded that whenever nuclei are   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> introduced experimentally into the cytoplasm of   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> another cell, they very quickly assume, in   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nearly every respect, the nuclear activity   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> characteristic of the host cell. In many   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> instances, altered function has been   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> demonstrated in nuclei which subsequently   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> support normal development." [1]   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sure, that's because various transcription   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> factors and such are in the cytoplasm, having   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> been transcribed and translated from the   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> previous nucleus. Differences between genomes   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> result in differences in expression.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Here's the critical logic: if the direction of   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> control flow is bi- directional, then to   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> resolve a chicken- and- egg paradox, we must   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conclude that information is initially present   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in both the nucleus and extra- nuclear, in   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> effectively digital and analogue form   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> respectively.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Digital" and "analog" are empty buzzwords in   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this context. But yes, proteins contain   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> information, if that's what you mean. But that   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> information is inherited, over the long term, in   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the form of DNA.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On what basis do you deem these "empty buzzwords"?   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A digital information medium stores heritable   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> information in discrete symbolic sequences that   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are copied and decoded by rule- based molecular   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> machinery. The human genome at 3.2 billion base   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pairs can be simply mapped into 6.4 billion bits   
      
   [continued in next message]   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)   

[   << oldest   |   < older   |   list   |   newer >   |   newest >>   ]


(c) 1994,  bbs@darkrealms.ca