From: wolverine01@charter.net   
      
   On 2/18/2026 9:11 PM, MarkE wrote:   
      
   > The universe exists (or so it seems). What is the explanation?   
   >   
   > There are two categories of explanation, which I would define as:   
   >   
   > 1. Natural - governed by physical law, with no action by non-material   
   > agency   
   >   
   > "How" options include:   
   >   
   > 1.a. Terminates in "brute fact" or necessity, e.g. eternal quantum   
   > vacuum, multiverse, mathematical structure   
   >   
   > 1.b. Infinite regress, e.g. cyclical universe   
      
   The quantum vacuum theories I think will eventually take away the   
   favorite status of the multiverse theory for the materialists.  It shows   
   acknowledgement of the singularity and "nothing" problem for a   
   naturalist origin.  They are looking for their bottom turtle in the   
   equation, and admit is may be beyond the ability of science to ever know   
   for sure one way or the other.   
      
   With Hawking using Imaginary numbers to make it work, particles jumping   
   in and out, the numerous string theories and their differing numbers of   
   dimensions, and all the other difficulties do have one thing in common.   
   Like the multiverse they are all impossible to prove.  Which if you were   
   to use the logic some here use for a supernatural cause, would eliminate   
   all of them from consideration.   
      
   I do want to investigate Guth's work on this more, but a good resource   
   in trying to understand the progression of the thinking and work in   
   understanding "nothing" and the possibility of something coming from it   
   in an effort to explain the Big Bang is a book by K. C. Cole "The Hole   
   In The Universe - How Scientists Peered Over the Edge of Emptiness and   
   Found Everything".  The author does an excellent job of making   
   understanding this stuff fun, and though he is not a theist, does not   
   attempt to dismiss the supernatural (he really just ignores it), and   
   does acknowledge the many, many difficulties with the theories.   
      
   Here's one good quote from his book:   
   “the quantum vacuum seems to require that something emerge from nothing.   
   Because nothing is impossible in the quantum vacuum (and—most   
   important—“ nothing” itself is impossible) the question of why the   
   universe is here is answered by the existence of quantum mechanics   
   itself: In a quantum mechanical universe, some kind of universe has to   
   be here. The only thing we don’t know is Why quantum mechanics? Why laws   
   of nature at all?”   
      
   IMO, there are more problems than this, and Mr. Cole does lay them out,   
   and an honest assessment of the quantum vacuum theories does nothing but   
   bring up the same problems and questions as the initial conditions of   
   the Big Bang present, they just move them further back in time.  The   
   "vacuum" and "nothing" are hard to explain as shown in the book, and so   
   far impossible to reproduce.  Yet, it is obvious that ANY scenario   
   presented, even in the craziness of the quantum world, still requires   
   origin explanations.  The best they can do for now is the low energy   
   state, but have not explained where and how that energy is supposed to   
   come from.  Yes, they are saying that even though "space and time"   
   didn't come into being until the Big Bang, the quantum vacuum is   
   eternal.  I understand the materialist's need to believe that, I just can't.   
      
   Of course, ID proponents like myself will find nothing objectionable to   
   any of this research.  It all sounds like something an intelligent being   
   just might use to begin the creation of the universe.  It just couldn't   
   have happened on it's own.  A last quote: “The particles can be created   
   out of the vacuum, given sufficient energy. But what was the source of   
   the energy?”   
      
      
      
      
   --   
   Science Doesn’t Support Darwin. Scientists Do   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)