XPost: uk.legal, uk.politics.drugs   
   From: bliss@sfo.com   
      
   Blah wrote:   
   > B Sellers wrote:   
   >> Blah wrote:   
   >>> agnon wrote:   
   >>>> On Tue, 28 Jul 2009 21:58:38 -0800, Pete nospam Zakel wrote:   
   >>>>   
   >>>>> In article  agnon    
   >>>>> writes:   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>>> Fair enough.  I know many mentals, and many cannabis users, and I   
   >>>>>> firmly   
   >>>>>> think that there is a clear link.   
   >>>>> The link may be that they are self-treating.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> For most people that is probably the case.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> There's a few people who have existing, known, mental health   
   >>>> problems whose problems are probably made worse by cannabis   
   >>>>   
   >>>> There might be a few people with underlying mh problems whose   
   >>>> condition is brought to the surface by cannabis use, especially   
   >>>> heavy cannabis use.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> There's a possibility that people with no underlying mh problem have   
   >>>> a mh problem that's caused by cannabis use, especially if that use   
   >>>> is heavy, and especially if they are young when they start, but the   
   >>>> evidence is far from clear about this.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> Note that even though I think cannabis may cause mh problems I'm   
   >>>> still strongly in support of legalizing all drugs.  I'm very much   
   >>>> against piss-   
   >>>> poor reporting like that in the Mail, which makes common sense harm   
   >>>> reduction harder.   
   >>>>   
   >>>>   
   >>> My gf has bipolar syndrome, and her pshycologist is quite insistant   
   >>> that it was caused by her canabis abuse during her teens. There is no   
   >>> other bipolar history in her extensive family.   
   >>>   
   >>> The psychologist also tells us that a growing number of mental health   
   >>> problems he sees are cannabis related.   
   >>   
   >>     That means he sees mentally ill people who happen to use   
   >> cannabis.  I don't know if early cannabis abuse can cause bi-polar   
   >> syndrome but I am convinced that bi-polar syndrome can cause cannabis   
   >> abuse in the undisciplined.  They try it and get relief from symptoms   
   >> and then think in the old human manner that if a little is good   
   >> more will be better.   
   >>   
   >   
   > Are you making this up as you go along? My gf has been off cannabis for   
   > most of the last ten years. In that time she has twice smoked cannabis   
   > for recreational use (nothing to do with relief from symptoms) for a few   
   > days and both times been sectioned within a month of restarting smoking   
   > it. She has been off it 4 years now, and has not had an episode since.   
   > Her psychologist firm view is that cannabis *causes* psychotic episodes.   
   > But, if you want to argue with a medical professional, I guess you must   
   > know better.   
      
   	Sure she gets to a point and goes off the cannabis wagon and then   
   having ingested a chemical has no reason to not act wild.  As for   
   medical professionals happy to argue with them whenever they offer a   
   chance.  Medical education illuminates some but others are blinded by   
   the light and wear blinkers to avoid the possibly uncomfortable truth   
   that they simply don't know everything.   
   	Where did all the psychotic people come from before the learned   
   doctors of medication had illegal drugs to blame for the   
   problems?  Note I say medication because that is how their practice   
   and thinking tends to be oriented these days.  Better perhaps for   
   some than the old psychotherapeutic modes of talking but not the   
   end of every problem.   
   	By the way bipolar frequency can change so don't be surpised   
   if she has more problems in the long term.   
      
   >   
   > Oh, and an example of when in a cannabis related mindfuck, in case you   
   > think its harmless. is that she smashed all her (male)neighbours windows   
   > and hit him with a stick because 'she thought she was neighbourhood   
   > watch, and he was a burglar'. She is 4'8 and 7 stone and quiet as a   
   > mouse usually.   
   	   
   	Maybe she is psychotic and maybe cannabis does trigger her   
   episodes but I have seen the same thing with alcoholics who have   
   stopped drinking and are running on "Dry Drunks".   
      
   >   
   >>     But I don't think people under 21 should have anything to   
   >> do with recreational drugs as the brain is still immature and   
   >> levels of important brain chemicals can be changed by some drugs   
   >> especially if they have to be taken often,  But tobacco is the   
   >> real danger in youth.   
   >>   
   >>>   
   >>> Perhaps the Mail reporting might come across as sensationalist, but   
   >>> don't shoot the messanger just because you don't like the tone,   
   >>> legalising something with many outstanding questions about what it   
   >>> really can do to the mind is just plain foolish.   
   >>   
   >>     There are no outstanding questions about the effect of   
   >> alcohol but it is still legal and we had the same problems with the   
   >> Prohibition of Alcohol as we have with the prohibition of cannabis   
   >> or the other illegalized drugs.   
   >   
   > We know alcohol very well and are willing to trade well understood   
   > problems for the benefits it gives.   
   > Legalising another form of self abuse can only give it a respectable   
   > flag, when its long term consequences are NOT understood.   
   >   
   >   
   >   
   >   
   	Alcohol gives no benefits except in special medical treatments   
   the rest of the story on alcohol is the hipe of brewers and distillers   
   and the perceptions of people with no other strong drugs at hand.   
      
   	later   
   	bliss   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)