167104b5   
   XPost: talk.politics.misc, talk.politics.guns   
   From: bliss@sfo.com   
      
   Brother Nate wrote:   
   > Pete nospam Zakel wrote:   
   >> Brother Nate writes:   
   >>> I can accept that it doesn't help sweet Jane to be arrested   
   >>> and brutalized in prison, but what I can't ultimately accept   
   >>> is that the people saying "Ain't it a shame?" were real   
   >>> friends.  If they weren't even willing to mention to Jane   
   >>> the things they saw with their own eyes they were little   
   >>> better than onlookers   
   >   
   >> How do you know they didn't mention anything?   
   >   
   > To be fair, I don't know.  The song doesn't elaborate on it and   
   > poetic license allows for a lot of simplification.  In the end I'd   
   > be content with the agreement that a real friend *should* say   
   > something - at least to try to influence as much as they can.   
   >   
   > Nancy Reagan saying "Just say no" was ultimately ineffective   
   > because drug users didn't care about her opinion.  It takes a   
   > lot to get an addicted person to make the sort of life change   
   > we're talking about, and as a general rule they don't even try   
   > unless somebody they really care about comes to them and   
   > says "hey man, we're worried about you".   
      
   	Nancy was just advising youth to say "NO" to drug use   
   when some one offered it.  It wasn't very effective because   
   the sort of youth willing to use drugs is not mindful of the   
   advice of a First Lady.   
      
   >   
   > --   
   > Brother Nate   
    > bronate@gmail.com   
    > Moral Compass   
      
      
   	A lot of people do advise their friends and until I refused   
   any longer to be my alcoholic friend's "ace in the hole" he   
   refused to sober up but he got a good start from that beginning   
   whereas kindly meant advice that didn't include the denial   
   of further assistance was unheeded.   
      
   	Other drug users are much the same as this sort of alcoholic   
   who is willing to let all their relationships go right down the drain   
   until the friends and relatives involved just tell him no more   
   support except to get to meetings or therapy.  I had other friends   
   who were not dependent on me whose co-dependents did not   
   force the issue and who remained trapped in chemical dependence   
   until death at an early age intervened.   
      
   	By all means if you see someone destroying their lives   
   and whom you are enabling confront them and withdraw your   
   support.  But leave it to the people who are in involved with   
   these chemical dependent to intervene.   
      
   	later   
   	bliss   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)