XPost: aus.politics.guns, can.talk.guns, uk.politics.guns   
   From: nospam@anytime.com   
      
   "10x" <10x@teluös.net> wrote in message   
   news:q8vfs41v6rlfg6e5jsdc2uvteutk216m93@4ax.com...   
   > On Sun, 22 Mar 2009 19:22:58 +1100, "Blinky Bill"    
   > wrote:   
   >   
   >>   
   >>"10x" <10x@teluös.net> wrote in message   
   >>news:j9kas41oo1bc8ursnpq66m4krgrl4fkk38@4ax.com...   
   >>> On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 23:58:31 +1100, "Blinky Bill"    
   >>> wrote:   
   >>>   
   >>>>   
   >>>>"10x" <10x@teluös.net> wrote in message   
   >>>>news:b6i9s4lsaf6so7lq3ks9ctb9crg16drjiq@4ax.com...   
   >>>>> On Sun, 15 Mar 2009 23:02:15 +1100, "Blinky Bill"    
   >>>>> wrote:   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> The exisiting laws are entirely adequate.   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>>What is your evidence for that? The US gun homicide rate certainly   
   >>>>>>suggests   
   >>>>>>otherwise.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> Murder is against the law in the U.S.A.   
   >>>>> Folks who have the intent to commit murder don't really care what   
   >>>>> method they use.   
   >>>>   
   >>>>And ???? The reality is that 2 /3 of of murders use firearms in the US.   
   >>>   
   >>> Yes that is a reality.  IF you take guns out of the equation will the   
   >>> number of murders drop or will will the methods change?   
   >>> The bottom line is, there are more guns available in the U.S. every   
   >>> year and there are fewer murders with guns every year.   
   >>   
   >>Not true - the FBI figures for firearm homicide are   
   >>2001  8890   
   >>2002  9528   
   >>2003 9659   
   >>2004 9385   
   >>2005 10100   
   >>2006 10177   
   >>   
   >>Only one year where firearm crime decreased.   
   >   
   > How does that compare to the population increaste in the U.S.A.?   
      
   I don't know - you will need to find that out yourself. Your claim was about   
   the number of murders, not the murder rate.   
      
   > How many firearms homicides are there per 100,000 for those years?   
      
   Try the FBI UCR - I am not you personal research assistant.   
      
   > How does that compare to the increase in guns per 100,000 citizens?   
      
   See above   
      
   > Are the legally justified homicides by law enforcement and self   
   > defence factored out of these totals?   
      
   See above. You would be tghe laziest or stupidest gunloon I have encountered   
   in quite some time.   
      
      
   > You are using raw data in an inapropirate way.   
      
   To prove you wrong? ROTFLMAO  Your claim was "there are fewer murders with   
   guns every year" - I showed that to be incorrect. How else was I supposed to   
   examine and rebutt a claim about the actual number?   
      
   >   
   > By itself the data you posted means very little.   
      
   Except that you were wrong or lying. It was a direct rebuttal of what you   
   claimed!!!!   
      
   >   
   >>>>> The U.S.A. has over 20,000 laws restricting the use of firearms   
   >>>>   
   >>>>A claim often made but never proved. Can youn prove it?   
   >>>   
   >>> You may be right, the 20,000 laws restricting guns may be an urban   
   >>> legend.   
   >>> However gun laws in the U.S. range from total prohibition to few if   
   >>> any restrictions at all.  Data shows that the crime rate and crime   
   >>> rate with firearms doesn't seem to have any correlation to whether or   
   >>> not guns are freely available to the law abiding public.   
   >>>   
   >>>>> including a federal law that prohibits possession of a firearm by a   
   >>>>> convicted felon.  Many of the murders commited by all means in the   
   >>>>> U.S.A. are by felons with histories of violence.   
   >>>>   
   >>>>According to the FBI lesss than a quarter have a connection with crime.   
   >>>   
   >>> 100% of murders have a connection to crime.   
   >>   
   >>Depends on the meaning of "connection". The original poster made a claim   
   >>concerning killings connected with a "criminal enterprise".   
   >>   
   > Most homicides are a result of a criminal act....   
      
   And most are not committed when connected to "a criminal enterprise", which   
   is the claim that was being discussed.   
      
   >   
   >>>  Murder in iself is a crime.   
   >>   
   >>Go figure - the discussion up to this point concerned killings as part of   
   >>a   
   >>"criminal enterprise". A homicide that occurs during an argument is not   
   >>connected to a "criminal enterprise".   
   >   
   > Homicide is homicide.   
      
   And no one has claimed homicide isn't homicide, but thanks for your deep and   
   valuable insight. However you came into a discussion about what proportion   
   of homicides occur in connection with a "criminal enterprise". If you can't   
   catch up or don't understand what that means just ask, instead of making   
   idiotic statements.   
      
   >>>>> Not to mention every year the net number of firearms increases in the   
   >>>>> U.S.A. while the total crime rate and the crime rate with firearms   
   >>>>> decreases. Please explain that.   
   >>>>   
   >>>>Provide evidence for your claim instead of asking me to explain it.   
   >>>   
   >>> No!   
   >>> You can see if you find evidence that proves me wrong on   
   >>> 1) the increase in number of guns in the U.S.   
   >>> and   
   >>> 2) the decrease in gun crime in the U.S. since 1976   
   >>   
   >>That's not the way it works - you made a claim so the onus is on you to   
   >>provide evidence.   
   >   
   > That isn't the way it works because you can't prove me wrong bucko....   
      
   You have the peculiar mindset of many gunloons that you can make a claim   
   without any supporting evidence and believe it to be a fact until proven   
   wrong - like your claim about fewer murders every year. That isn't reality.   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)