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   talk.politics      General politics discussion      44,666 messages   

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   Message 42,683 of 44,666   
   a322x1n to All   
   Vote counting?   
   04 Nov 20 17:04:03   
   
   XPost: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, alt.atheism, alt.politics   
   XPost: alt.politics.trump, alt.politics.democrats, alt.politics.republicans   
   XPost: talk.politics.misc, alt.religion.christian.roman-catholic,   
   alt.recovery.catholicism   
   XPost: sac.politics   
   From: void@void.void   
      
   USPS blows deadline to check for missing ballots. 300K can't be traced.   
   Biogen's stock jumps 42% after FDA staff says it has enough data to   
   support… CNN logoTrump's call to halt vote counts is his most brazen   
   swipe at democracy yet   
      
   Donald Trump wearing a suit and tie: U.S. President Donald Trump pauses   
   as he speaks about early results from the 2020 U.S. presidential   
   election in the East Room of the White House in Washington, U.S.,   
   November 4, 2020. REUTERS/Carlos Barria© Carlos Barria/Reuters U.S.   
   President Donald Trump pauses as he speaks about early results from the   
   2020 U.S. presidential election in the East Room of the White House in   
   Washington, U.S., November 4, 2020. REUTERS/Carlos Barria President   
   Donald Trump's demand for vote counting to stop in an election that is   
   still undecided may have been his most extreme and dangerous assault on   
   the institutions of democracy yet in a presidency replete with them.   
      
   Trump appeared in the East Room of the White House early on Wednesday   
   morning to claim falsely that he had already beaten Democrat Joe Biden,   
   and the election was being stolen from him in a massive act of fraud. He   
   vowed to mount a challenge in the Supreme Court and declared that he had   
   already won states that were still counting votes, including Georgia,   
   North Carolina and Pennsylvania.   
      
   The election has not yet been won, and the President and the former vice   
   president are still locked in a tight battle for the decisive states   
   with millions of votes still being counted.   
      
   Trump's remarks essentially amounted to a demand for the legally cast   
   votes of American citizens not to be recorded in a historic act of   
   disenfranchisement. And they brought closer the potential constitutional   
   nightmare that many have feared since Trump started to tarnish an   
   election that he apparently worried he could lose months ago. His   
   rhetorical broadside was also notable because it came at a moment of   
   huge tension in a deeply divided nation -- a time when a president, even   
   one whose political fate is in the process of being written -- could be   
   expected to call for calm.   
      
   Trump's comments were especially remarkable since it appears that the   
   President has a good chance of winning outstanding states in   
   Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Georgia, North Carolina and Michigan, which   
   could hand him a second term. And the implication of his authoritarian   
   remarks was that the President wants vote counting to stop in those   
   states but to go on in Arizona, where he trails Biden.   
      
   They were also a warning sign of the kind of behavior that might be   
   expected in a second term from a President who has survived impeachment   
   and may be heading for a new mandate that he would view as a validation   
   of his norm-crushing behavior. In some ways, Trump's aggressive response   
   to a night of nail-biting tension and a yet-to-be-decided result could   
   also take the gloss from what would be a stunning political achievement   
   if he wins reelection despite expectations that his handling of the   
   pandemic would cause the country to turn against him.   
      
   "Millions and millions of people voted for us," Trump said in the East   
   Room. "A very sad group of people is trying to disenfranchise that group   
   of people."   
      
   Trump wary of early and mail-in votes   
   Trump is angry that hundreds of thousands of mail-in and early votes --   
   cast disproportionately by Democrats -- are still being counted, leaving   
   open the possibility that Biden could challenge Trump's leads in the   
   Midwest. But those votes were made in a way that is just as legitimate   
   as the ballots that were lodged by voters showing up in their precincts   
   in the traditional manner.   
      
   "We were getting ready for a big celebration. We were winning   
   everything. And all of a sudden it was just called off," Trump said.   
   "This is a fraud on the American public. This is an embarrassment to our   
   country."   
      
   "Frankly, we did win this election," he said, despite millions of votes   
   still outstanding.   
      
   The President made his televised statement after his opponent delivered   
   his own remarks and said that all of the votes must be counted.   
      
   "It's not my place or Donald Trump's place to declare who has won this   
   election," Biden told his crowd in Wilmington, Delaware.   
      
   Throughout his presidency, Trump has consistently taken aim at the   
   institutions that have underpinned American government for decades. He   
   has attacked the judiciary, the intelligence services and made clear for   
   example that he believes that the Justice Department should be loyal to   
   him rather than the law. He has even said that as president he has   
   absolute power under the Constitution to do whatever he wants.   
      
   "I have an Article Two where I have the right to do whatever I want as   
   President," Trump declared last year.   
      
   'Legally cast ballots'   
   It was not immediately clear on what grounds Trump planned to try to ask   
   the Supreme Court to intervene in the election because, so far, he has   
   not provided evidence for any voting irregularities.   
      
   "These are legally cast ballots or at least will be determined to be   
   legally cast ballots by the appropriate local county and state   
   officials," Benjamin Ginsberg, a longtime Republican election lawyer,   
   told CNN's Jake Tapper.   
      
   "And for a president to say we are going to disenfranchise those legally   
   cast ballots -- it really is extraordinary."   
      
   The President's statement sparked a sharp response from Biden's campaign   
   manager, Jen O'Malley Dillon.   
      
   "It was outrageous because it is a naked effort to take away the   
   democratic rights of American citizens," she said in a written   
   statement.   
      
   "The counting will not stop."   
      
   And former New Jersey governor and top Trump ally Chris Christie voiced   
   disagreement with Trump's election night remarks prematurely declaring   
   victory and attacking legitimate vote counting efforts. Christie said   
   Trump "undercut his own credibility."   
      
   "There's just no basis to make that argument tonight. There just isn't.   
   All these votes have to be counted that are in now," Christie said   
   during a panel on ABC News moments after Trump's remarks, noting that   
   the vote count in Pennsylvania will continue for days and "that   
   argument's for later."   
      
      
      
        
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)   

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