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|    talk.politics    |    General politics discussion    |    44,666 messages    |
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|    Message 44,221 of 44,666    |
|    dolf to dolf    |
|    Re: DOLF eats hagelslag (8/27)    |
|    05 Jul 25 10:58:50    |
   
   [continued from previous message]   
      
   >> presence, person; 1c) face (of seraphim or cherubim); 1d) face (of   
   >> animals); 1e) face, surface (of ground); 1f) as adv of loc/temp; 1f1)   
   >> before and behind, toward, in front of, forward, formerly, from   
   >> beforetime, before; 1g) with prep; 1g1) in front of, before, to the   
   >> front of, in the presence of, in the face of, at the face or front of,   
   >> from the presence of, from before, from before the face of;   
   >>   
   >> #102 - ONTIC TOTAL: #186 as [#30, #2, #50, #20] = bên (H1121): {UMBRA:   
   >> #52 % #41 = #11} 1) son, grandson, child, member of a group; 1a) son,   
   >> male child; 1b) grandson; 1c) *CHILDREN* (pl. - male and female); 1d)   
   >> youth, young men (pl.); 1e) young (of animals); 1f) sons (as   
   >> characterisation, i.e. sons of injustice [for un- righteous men] or   
   >> sons of God [for angels]; 1g) people (of a nation) (pl.); 1h) of   
   >> lifeless things, i.e. sparks, stars, arrows (fig.); 1i) a member of a   
   >> guild, order, class;   
   >>   
   >> #616 - ONTIC TOTAL: #186 as [#40, #10, #50, #10, #100, #6, #400] =   
   >> yânaq (H3243): {UMBRA: #160 % #41 = #37} 1) to suckle, nurse, suck;   
   >> 1a) (Qal); 1a1) to suck; 1a2) suckling, *BABE* (subst); 1b) (Hiphil);   
   >> 1b1) to give suck to, nurse; 1b2) nursing, nursing woman, nurse   
   >> (participle);   
   >>   
   >> #599 - ONTIC TOTAL: #186 as [#1, #3, #1, #80, #8, #200, #1, #300, #5] /   
   >> #980 - ONTIC TOTAL: #352 as [#1, #3, #1, #80, #800, #40, #5, #50] =   
   >> agapá   
    (G25): {UMBRA: #886 % #41 = #25} 1) of persons; 1a) to welcome,   
   >> to entertain, to be fond of, *TO* *LOVE* *DEARLY*; 2) of things; 2a)   
   >> to be well pleased, to be contented at or with a thing;   
   >>   
   >> #1172 - FEME TOTAL: #281 as [#6, #30, #40, #6, #80, #400, #10, #600] =   
   >> môwphêth (H4159): {UMBRA: #526 % #41 = #34} 1) wonder, sign, miracle,   
   >> portent; 1a) *WONDER* (*AS* *A* *SPECIAL* *DISPLAY* *OF* *GOD'S*   
   >> *POWER*); 1b) sign, token (of future event);   
   >>   
   >> #1141 - MALE TOTAL: #343 as [#70, #6, #50, #400, #10, #5, #600] =   
   >> ʻâvôn (H5771): {UMBRA: #126 % #41 = #3} 1) perversity, depravity,   
   >> iniquity, guilt or punishment of iniquity; 1a) iniquity; 1b) guilt of   
   >> iniquity, guilt (as great), guilt (of condition); 1c) *CONSEQUENCE*   
   >> *OF* *OR* *PUNISHMENT* *FOR* *INIQUITY*;   
   >>   
   >> DOLF: "What is the meaning of the phrase: "EXPUNGED FROM THE BOOK OF   
   >> LIFE"?"   
   >>   
   >> COPILOT @ 1847 HRS ON 2 JULY 2025: "The phrase "expunged from the Book   
   >> of Life" carries deep symbolic and theological weight, especially   
   >> within Judeo-Christian traditions. Here's a breakdown of its layered   
   >> meaning:   
   >>   
   >> THE "BOOK OF LIFE": This is a metaphorical or spiritual ledger   
   >> mentioned in both the Hebrew Bible and the New Testament. It   
   >> represents a divine record of those who are destined for eternal life,   
   >> righteousness, or divine favor.   
   >>   
   >> • In Exodus 32:32–33, Moses pleads with God to forgive   
   >> Israel’s sin or else “blot me out of the book You have written.”   
   >> • In Psalm 69:28, David prays that the wicked be   
   “blotted out   
   >> of the Book of Life.”   
   >> • In Revelation 3:5, Jesus promises not to blot out the   
   name   
   >> of the one who overcomes.   
   >> • Revelation 20:15 warns that anyone not found in the   
   Book of   
   >> Life is cast into the lake of fire.   
   >>   
   >> "EXPUNGED" — A LEGAL AND MORAL SEVERANCE: To be expunged means to be   
   >> completely erased, as if one’s name was never there. In this context,   
   >> it implies:   
   >>   
   >> • Loss of divine favor or salvation   
   >> • Severance from the community of the righteous   
   >> • A moral or spiritual disqualification, often due to   
   >> persistent rebellion, corruption, or tampering with sacred truth (as   
   >> in Revelation 22:19)   
   >>   
   >> INTERPRETIVE NUANCES: There’s debate among theologians about whether   
   >> names can truly be removed:   
   >>   
   >> • Some argue the Book is immutable—those written in it   
   are   
   >> eternally secure.   
   >> • Others see the warnings as real: apostasy or grave sin   
   could   
   >> lead to expulsion.   
   >> • Some interpret the phrase as litotes—a rhetorical   
   device   
   >> meaning “your name will certainly remain” by stating the opposite   
   >> won’t happen.   
   >>   
   >> SYMBOLIC IMPLICATION: To be “expunged from the Book of Life” is to be   
   >> cut off from the divine narrative—no longer part of the cosmic memory   
   >> of redemption. It’s not just about punishment, but about disconnection   
   >> from meaning, belonging, and eternal continuity.   
   >>   
   >> If you’re exploring this phrase in a philosophical, literary, or   
   >> metaphysical context, it opens up fascinating questions about   
   >> identity, memory, and moral consequence. Would you like to explore how   
   >> this concept maps onto other traditions or symbolic systems?"   
   >>   
   >> DOLF: "Can it also mean "going to the grave" or hell as a place of no   
   >> return?"   
   >>   
   >> COPILOT @ 1849 HRS ON 2 JULY 2025: "Yes, in many theological and   
   >> symbolic interpretations, being “expunged from the Book of Life” is   
   >> closely associated with irreversible separation from divine presence,   
   >> which can be understood as:   
   >>   
   >> GOING TO THE GRAVE: In some Hebrew Bible contexts, especially in   
   >> Psalms and prophetic literature, being “blotted out” or “cut off”   
   can   
   >> imply premature death or removal from the covenantal community. The   
   >> grave (Sheol) is often portrayed as a shadowy realm of silence and   
   >> forgetfulness—a place where one no longer participates in the living   
   >> memory of God.   
   >>   
   >> HELL AS A PLACE OF NO RETURN: In Christian eschatology, particularly   
   >> in Revelation 20:15, those not found in the Book of Life are “cast   
   >> into the lake of fire”. This is interpreted by many as eternal   
   >> separation from God—a final, unalterable state of judgment. The   
   >> imagery of being “thrown” into this realm underscores its forceful and   
   >> irreversible nature.   
   >>   
   >> SYMBOLIC LAYER: Beyond literalism, the phrase can also signify:   
   >>   
   >> • Moral exile: a soul so alienated from truth or goodness   
   that   
   >> it no longer resonates with the divine order.   
   >> • Ontological erasure: not annihilation, but being   
   forgotten   
   >> by the cosmos, no longer part of the unfolding story of life and meaning.   
   >>   
   >> So yes—whether as grave, hell, or cosmic oblivion, the phrase evokes a   
   >> point of no return, where the soul is no longer inscribed in the   
   >> ledger of life, memory, or redemption. If you’d like, we can explore   
   >> how this concept compares with other traditions—like the Egyptian   
   >> “weighing of the heart” or the Buddhist notion of karmic obscuration.   
   >>   
   >> DOLF: "Would you concur that it is an expression intrinsic to   
   >> Christian belief: "AND FEAR NOT THEM WHICH KILL THE BODY, BUT ARE NOT   
   >> ABLE TO KILL THE SOUL: BUT RATHER FEAR HIM WHICH IS ABLE TO DESTROY   
   >> BOTH SOUL AND BODY IN HELL." [Matthew 10:28]   
   >>   
   >> COPILOT @ 1857 HRS ON 2 JULY 2025: "Absolutely—it’s deeply intrinsic   
   >> to Christian theology, particularly in how it frames divine authority   
   >> over both physical and eternal life.   
   >>   
   >> Matthew 10:28 is a striking verse where Jesus draws a sharp   
   >> distinction between human power (which can end the body) and divine   
   >> power (which governs the soul’s destiny). The phrase “destroy both   
   >> soul and body in hell” (Greek: Gehenna) underscores a uniquely   
      
   [continued in next message]   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)   
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