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|    talk.politics    |    General politics discussion    |    44,666 messages    |
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|    Message 44,226 of 44,666    |
|    dolf to dolf    |
|    Re: DOLF eats hagelslag (16/27)    |
|    05 Jul 25 10:58:50    |
      [continued from previous message]              >>>>>> found, but is not necessary; for the concept of causality (whereby       >>>>>> through one thing, something completely different from it is       >>>>>> posited) at least does not require it.       >>>>>>       >>>>>> If the objects of the sensible world were taken for things in       >>>>>> themselves, and the previously stated natural laws for laws of       >>>>>> things in themselves, contradiction would be inevitable. In the       >>>>>> same way, if the subject of freedom were represented, like the       >>>>>> other objects, as a mere appearance, contradiction could again not       >>>>>> be avoided, for the same thing would be simultaneously affirmed       >>>>>> and denied of the same object in the same sense. But if natural       >>>>>> necessity is referred only to appearances and freedom only to       >>>>>> things in themselves, then no contradiction arises if both kinds       >>>>>> of causality are assumed or conceded equally, however difficult or       >>>>>> impossible it may be to make causality of the latter kind       >>>>>> conceivable.       >>>>>>       >>>>>> Within appearance, every effect is an event, or something that       >>>>>> happens in time; the effect must, in accordance with the universal       >>>>>> law of nature, be preceded by a determination of the causality of       >>>>>> its cause (a state of the cause), from which the effect follows in       >>>>>> accordance with a constant law. But this determination of the       >>>>>> cause to causality must also be something that occurs or takes       >>>>>> place; the cause must have begun to act, for otherwise no sequence       >>>>>> in time could be thought between it and the effect. [IDEA #344]       >>>>>> Both the effect and the causality of the cause would have always       >>>>>> existed. Therefore the determination of the cause to act must also       >>>>>> have arisen among the appearances, and so it must, like its       >>>>>> effect, be an event, which again must have its cause, and so on,       >>>>>> and hence natural necessity must be the condition in accordance       >>>>>> with which efficient causes are determined. Should, by contrast,       >>>>>> freedom be a property of certain causes of appearances, then that       >>>>>> freedom must, in relation to the appearances as events, be a       >>>>>> faculty of starting those events from itself (sponte -       >>>>>> spontaneous), i.e., without the causality of the cause itself       >>>>>> having to begin, and hence without need for any other ground to       >>>>>> determine its beginning. But then the cause, as to its causality,       >>>>>> would not have to be subject to temporal determinations of its       >>>>>> state, i.e., would not have to be appearance at all, i.e., would       >>>>>> have to be taken for a thing in itself, and only the effects would       >>>>>> have to be taken for appearances.       >>>>>>       >>>>>> NOTE: The idea of freedom has its place solely in the relation of       >>>>>> the *INTELLECTUAL* (des Intellektuellen), as cause, to the       >>>>>> appearance, as effect. Therefore we cannot bestow freedom upon       >>>>>> matter, in consideration of the unceasing activity by which it       >>>>>> fills its space, even though this activity occurs through an inner       >>>>>> principle. We can just as little find any concept of freedom to       >>>>>> fit a purely intelligible being, e.g., God, insofar as his action       >>>>>> is immanent. For his action, although independent of causes       >>>>>> determining it from outside, nevertheless is determined in his       >>>>>> eternal reason, hence in the divine nature. Only if something       >>>>>> should begin through an action, hence the effect be found in the       >>>>>> time series, and so in the sensible world (e.g., the beginning of       >>>>>> the world), does the question arise of whether the causality of       >>>>>> the cause must itself also have a beginning, or whether the cause       >>>>>> can originate an effect without its causality itself having a       >>>>>> beginning. In the first case the concept of this causality is a       >>>>>> concept of natural necessity, in the second of freedom. From this       >>>>>> the reader will see that, since I have explained freedom as the       >>>>>> faculty to begin an event by oneself, I have exactly hit that       >>>>>> concept which is the problem of metaphysics.       >>>>>>       >>>>>> If this sort of influence of intelligible beings on appearances       >>>>>> can be thought without contradiction, then natural necessity will       >>>>>> indeed attach to every connection of cause and effect in the       >>>>>> sensible world, and yet that cause which is itself not an       >>>>>> appearance (though it underlies appearance) will still be entitled       >>>>>> to freedom, and therefore nature and freedom will be attributable       >>>>>> without contradiction to the very same thing, but in different       >>>>>> respects, in the one case as appearance, in the other as a thing       >>>>>> in itself. We have in us a faculty that not only stands in       >>>>>> connection with its subjectively determining grounds, which are       >>>>>> the natural causes of its [IDEA #345] actions – and thus far is       >>>>>> the faculty of a being which itself belongs to appearances – but       >>>>>> that also is related to objective grounds that are mere ideas,       >>>>>> insofar as these ideas can determine this faculty, a connection       >>>>>> that is expressed by ought.       >>>>>>       >>>>>> This faculty is called reason, and insofar as we are considering a       >>>>>> being (the human being) solely as regards this objectively       >>>>>> determinable reason, this being cannot be considered as a being of       >>>>>> the senses; rather, the aforesaid property is the property of a       >>>>>> thing in itself, and the possibility of that property – namely,       >>>>>> how the ought, which has never yet happened, can determine the       >>>>>> activity of this being and can be the cause of actions whose       >>>>>> effect is an appearance in the sensible world – we cannot       >>>>>> comprehend at all. Yet the causality of reason with respect to       >>>>>> effects in the sensible world would nonetheless be freedom,       >>>>>> insofar as objective grounds, which are themselves ideas, are       >>>>>> taken to be determining with respect to that causality. For the       >>>>>> action of that causality would in that case not depend on any       >>>>>> subjective, hence also not on any temporal conditions, and would       >>>>>> therefore also not depend on the natural law that serves to       >>>>>> determine those conditions, because grounds of reason provide the       >>>>>> rule for actions universally, from principles, without influence       >>>>>> from the circumstances of time or place.       >>>>>>       >>>>>> What I adduce here counts only as an example, for intelligibility,       >>>>>> and does not belong necessarily to our question, which must be       >>>>>> decided from mere concepts independently of properties that we       >>>>>> find in the actual world.       >>>>>>       >>>>>> I can now say without contradiction: all actions of rational       >>>>>> beings, insofar as they are appearances (are encountered in some       >>>>>> experience or other), are subject to natural necessity; but the       >>>>>> very same actions, with respect only to the rational subject and       >>>>>> its faculty of acting in accordance with bare reason, are free.       >>>>>> What, then, is required for natural necessity? Nothing more than       >>>>>> the determinability of every event in the sensible world according       >>>>>> to constant laws, and therefore a relation to a cause within       >>>>>> appearance; whereby the underlying thing in itself and its       >>>>>> causality remain unknown. But I say: the law of nature remains,       >>>>>> whether the rational being be a cause of effects in the sensible              [continued in next message]              --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05        * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)    |
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