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|    talk.politics    |    General politics discussion    |    44,666 messages    |
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|    Message 44,267 of 44,666    |
|    dolf to dolf    |
|    Re: DOLF eats hagelslag (22/33)    |
|    10 Jul 25 08:25:21    |
      [continued from previous message]              >>>>>>> causes determining it from outside, nevertheless is determined in       >>>>>>> his eternal reason, hence in the divine nature. Only if something       >>>>>>> should begin through an action, hence the effect be found in the       >>>>>>> time series, and so in the sensible world (e.g., the beginning of       >>>>>>> the world), does the question arise of whether the causality of       >>>>>>> the cause must itself also have a beginning, or whether the cause       >>>>>>> can originate an effect without its causality itself having a       >>>>>>> beginning. In the first case the concept of this causality is a       >>>>>>> concept of natural necessity, in the second of freedom. From this       >>>>>>> the reader will see that, since I have explained freedom as the       >>>>>>> faculty to begin an event by oneself, I have exactly hit that       >>>>>>> concept which is the problem of metaphysics.       >>>>>>>       >>>>>>> If this sort of influence of intelligible beings on appearances       >>>>>>> can be thought without contradiction, then natural necessity will       >>>>>>> indeed attach to every connection of cause and effect in the       >>>>>>> sensible world, and yet that cause which is itself not an       >>>>>>> appearance (though it underlies appearance) will still be       >>>>>>> entitled to freedom, and therefore nature and freedom will be       >>>>>>> attributable without contradiction to the very same thing, but in       >>>>>>> different respects, in the one case as appearance, in the other       >>>>>>> as a thing in itself. We have in us a faculty that not only       >>>>>>> stands in connection with its subjectively determining grounds,       >>>>>>> which are the natural causes of its [IDEA #345] actions – and       >>>>>>> thus far is the faculty of a being which itself belongs to       >>>>>>> appearances – but that also is related to objective grounds that       >>>>>>> are mere ideas, insofar as these ideas can determine this       >>>>>>> faculty, a connection that is expressed by ought.       >>>>>>>       >>>>>>> This faculty is called reason, and insofar as we are considering       >>>>>>> a being (the human being) solely as regards this objectively       >>>>>>> determinable reason, this being cannot be considered as a being       >>>>>>> of the senses; rather, the aforesaid property is the property of       >>>>>>> a thing in itself, and the possibility of that property – namely,       >>>>>>> how the ought, which has never yet happened, can determine the       >>>>>>> activity of this being and can be the cause of actions whose       >>>>>>> effect is an appearance in the sensible world – we cannot       >>>>>>> comprehend at all. Yet the causality of reason with respect to       >>>>>>> effects in the sensible world would nonetheless be freedom,       >>>>>>> insofar as objective grounds, which are themselves ideas, are       >>>>>>> taken to be determining with respect to that causality. For the       >>>>>>> action of that causality would in that case not depend on any       >>>>>>> subjective, hence also not on any temporal conditions, and would       >>>>>>> therefore also not depend on the natural law that serves to       >>>>>>> determine those conditions, because grounds of reason provide the       >>>>>>> rule for actions universally, from principles, without influence       >>>>>>> from the circumstances of time or place.       >>>>>>>       >>>>>>> What I adduce here counts only as an example, for       >>>>>>> intelligibility, and does not belong necessarily to our question,       >>>>>>> which must be decided from mere concepts independently of       >>>>>>> properties that we find in the actual world.       >>>>>>>       >>>>>>> I can now say without contradiction: all actions of rational       >>>>>>> beings, insofar as they are appearances (are encountered in some       >>>>>>> experience or other), are subject to natural necessity; but the       >>>>>>> very same actions, with respect only to the rational subject and       >>>>>>> its faculty of acting in accordance with bare reason, are free.       >>>>>>> What, then, is required for natural necessity? Nothing more than       >>>>>>> the determinability of every event in the sensible world       >>>>>>> according to constant laws, and therefore a relation to a cause       >>>>>>> within appearance; whereby the underlying thing in itself and its       >>>>>>> causality remain unknown. But I say: the law of nature remains,       >>>>>>> whether the rational being be a cause of effects in the sensible       >>>>>>> world through reason and hence through freedom, or whether that       >>>>>>> being does not determine such effects through rational grounds.       >>>>>>> For if the first is the case, the action takes place according to       >>>>>>> maxims whose effect within appearance will always conform to       >>>>>>> constant laws; if the second is the case, and the action does not       >>>>>>> take [IDEA #346] place according to principles of reason, then it       >>>>>>> is subject to the empirical laws of sensibility, and in both       >>>>>>> cases the effects are connected according to constant laws; but       >>>>>>> we require nothing more for natural necessity, and indeed know       >>>>>>> nothing more of it. In the first case, however, reason is the       >>>>>>> cause of these natural laws and is therefore free, in the second       >>>>>>> case the effects flow according to mere natural laws of       >>>>>>> sensibility, because reason exercises no influence on them; but,       >>>>>>> because of this, reason is not itself determined by sensibility       >>>>>>> (which is impossible), and it is therefore also free in this       >>>>>>> case. Therefore freedom does not impede the natural law of       >>>>>>> appearances, any more than this law interferes with the freedom       >>>>>>> of the practical use of reason, a use that stands in connection       >>>>>>> with things in themselves as determining grounds." [pages 93-97]       >>>>>>>       >>>>>>> DOLF: "How is the notion of a civil society related to the       >>>>>>> inherent human disposition of animus / anima and does such       >>>>>>> dynamic suggest there is an ontic #22 - jié (結): *FORMATIONAL*       >>>>>>> (circumscribed as bounding) #135 - níng (凝): *CONGEALING* /       >>>>>>> [#56, #79] concept of facilitated arbitration as #174 -       >>>>>>> CYBERNETIC SYSTEMIC / ANTHROPOMORPHIC PRINCIPLE which when       >>>>>>> disordered possesses an attenuated #152 / #174 - yí (疑):       >>>>>>> *DEFICIENCY* / [#29, #61, #62, #22] that may in a chronic       >>>>>>> ontological state be regarded as either delinquency or reprobation?"       >>>>>>>       >>>>       >>>>       >>>> CAN REFUSAL OF COMMUNION BY IRISH CATHOLIC ARCHBISHOP PELL ON BOER       >>>> WAR MEMORIAL DAY / PENTECOST SUNDAY 31 MAY 1998 BE BROUGHT BEFORE       >>>> THE INTERNATIONAL CRIMINAL COURT?       >>>>       >>>> Instances of the most serious international crimes, such as war       >>>> crimes, crimes of aggression, genocide and crime against humanity       >>>> (eg: RECLAIM THE #1827 - EUCHARIST / PENTECOST FROM         - SWASTIKA       >>>> OBSTRUCTION / BABYLONIAN [#314 - mágos (G3097): *WISE* *MEN* / #335       >>>> - Kasday (H3779): CHALDEAN / #87 - BABYLONIAN KING (circa 721 BC) as       >>>> [#2 - FULL CIRCLE (周), #30 - BOLD RESOLUTION (毅), #1 - CENTRE       >>>> (中), #4 - BARRIER (閑), #50 - VASTNESS / WASTING (唐)] being ANTI-       >>>> STATISM ARTIFICE as UNCONSTITUTIONAL: SECTION II: UNALIENABLE RIGHTS       >>>> TRANSFERENCE PROTOCOL ] PERSECUTION OF JEWISH - CHRISTIANS AS       >>>> SUBSTANTIATED CLAIM TO BELIEF #100 + 40 AM as 3860 BCE + 20 x (293 x       >>>> 365.2423 TROPICAL YEARS | 294 x 364 | 6J) + 1 (NO 0 CE) = 2001 CE       >>>> (NEW MOON 20 MARCH 1996 + 5 x 364 + 182 = 12 SEPTEMBER 2001 + 182 =       >>>> NEW MOON 13 / 14 MARCH 2002), can be brought before the       >>>> International Criminal Court, a permanent international tribunal. It              [continued in next message]              --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05        * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)    |
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