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|    talk.politics    |    General politics discussion    |    44,666 messages    |
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|    Message 44,356 of 44,666    |
|    dolf to dolf    |
|    Re: DOLF eats hagelslag (31/43)    |
|    11 Jul 25 08:02:37    |
      [continued from previous message]              >>>>>>>>>>> whether the causality of the cause must itself also have a       >>>>>>>>>>> beginning, or whether the cause can originate an effect       >>>>>>>>>>> without its causality itself having a beginning. In the first       >>>>>>>>>>> case the concept of this causality is a concept of natural       >>>>>>>>>>> necessity, in the second of freedom. From this the reader       >>>>>>>>>>> will see that, since I have explained freedom as the faculty       >>>>>>>>>>> to begin an event by oneself, I have exactly hit that concept       >>>>>>>>>>> which is the problem of metaphysics.       >>>>>>>>>>>       >>>>>>>>>>> If this sort of influence of intelligible beings on       >>>>>>>>>>> appearances can be thought without contradiction, then       >>>>>>>>>>> natural necessity will indeed attach to every connection of       >>>>>>>>>>> cause and effect in the sensible world, and yet that cause       >>>>>>>>>>> which is itself not an appearance (though it underlies       >>>>>>>>>>> appearance) will still be entitled to freedom, and therefore       >>>>>>>>>>> nature and freedom will be attributable without contradiction       >>>>>>>>>>> to the very same thing, but in different respects, in the one       >>>>>>>>>>> case as appearance, in the other as a thing in itself. We       >>>>>>>>>>> have in us a faculty that not only stands in connection with       >>>>>>>>>>> its subjectively determining grounds, which are the natural       >>>>>>>>>>> causes of its [IDEA #345] actions – and thus far is the       >>>>>>>>>>> faculty of a being which itself belongs to appearances – but       >>>>>>>>>>> that also is related to objective grounds that are mere       >>>>>>>>>>> ideas, insofar as these ideas can determine this faculty, a       >>>>>>>>>>> connection that is expressed by ought.       >>>>>>>>>>>       >>>>>>>>>>> This faculty is called reason, and insofar as we are       >>>>>>>>>>> considering a being (the human being) solely as regards this       >>>>>>>>>>> objectively determinable reason, this being cannot be       >>>>>>>>>>> considered as a being of the senses; rather, the aforesaid       >>>>>>>>>>> property is the property of a thing in itself, and the       >>>>>>>>>>> possibility of that property – namely, how the ought, which       >>>>>>>>>>> has never yet happened, can determine the activity of this       >>>>>>>>>>> being and can be the cause of actions whose effect is an       >>>>>>>>>>> appearance in the sensible world – we cannot comprehend at       >>>>>>>>>>> all. Yet the causality of reason with respect to effects in       >>>>>>>>>>> the sensible world would nonetheless be freedom, insofar as       >>>>>>>>>>> objective grounds, which are themselves ideas, are taken to       >>>>>>>>>>> be determining with respect to that causality. For the action       >>>>>>>>>>> of that causality would in that case not depend on any       >>>>>>>>>>> subjective, hence also not on any temporal conditions, and       >>>>>>>>>>> would therefore also not depend on the natural law that       >>>>>>>>>>> serves to determine those conditions, because grounds of       >>>>>>>>>>> reason provide the rule for actions universally, from       >>>>>>>>>>> principles, without influence from the circumstances of time       >>>>>>>>>>> or place.       >>>>>>>>>>>       >>>>>>>>>>> What I adduce here counts only as an example, for       >>>>>>>>>>> intelligibility, and does not belong necessarily to our       >>>>>>>>>>> question, which must be decided from mere concepts       >>>>>>>>>>> independently of properties that we find in the actual world.       >>>>>>>>>>>       >>>>>>>>>>> I can now say without contradiction: all actions of rational       >>>>>>>>>>> beings, insofar as they are appearances (are encountered in       >>>>>>>>>>> some experience or other), are subject to natural necessity;       >>>>>>>>>>> but the very same actions, with respect only to the rational       >>>>>>>>>>> subject and its faculty of acting in accordance with bare       >>>>>>>>>>> reason, are free. What, then, is required for natural       >>>>>>>>>>> necessity? Nothing more than the determinability of every       >>>>>>>>>>> event in the sensible world according to constant laws, and       >>>>>>>>>>> therefore a relation to a cause within appearance; whereby       >>>>>>>>>>> the underlying thing in itself and its causality remain       >>>>>>>>>>> unknown. But I say: the law of nature remains, whether the       >>>>>>>>>>> rational being be a cause of effects in the sensible world       >>>>>>>>>>> through reason and hence through freedom, or whether that       >>>>>>>>>>> being does not determine such effects through rational       >>>>>>>>>>> grounds. For if the first is the case, the action takes place       >>>>>>>>>>> according to maxims whose effect within appearance will       >>>>>>>>>>> always conform to constant laws; if the second is the case,       >>>>>>>>>>> and the action does not take [IDEA #346] place according to       >>>>>>>>>>> principles of reason, then it is subject to the empirical       >>>>>>>>>>> laws of sensibility, and in both cases the effects are       >>>>>>>>>>> connected according to constant laws; but we require nothing       >>>>>>>>>>> more for natural necessity, and indeed know nothing more of       >>>>>>>>>>> it. In the first case, however, reason is the cause of these       >>>>>>>>>>> natural laws and is therefore free, in the second case the       >>>>>>>>>>> effects flow according to mere natural laws of sensibility,       >>>>>>>>>>> because reason exercises no influence on them; but, because       >>>>>>>>>>> of this, reason is not itself determined by sensibility       >>>>>>>>>>> (which is impossible), and it is therefore also free in this       >>>>>>>>>>> case. Therefore freedom does not impede the natural law of       >>>>>>>>>>> appearances, any more than this law interferes with the       >>>>>>>>>>> freedom of the practical use of reason, a use that stands in       >>>>>>>>>>> connection with things in themselves as determining       >>>>>>>>>>> grounds." [pages 93-97]       >>>>>>>>>>>       >>>>>>>>>>> DOLF: "How is the notion of a civil society related to the       >>>>>>>>>>> inherent human disposition of animus / anima and does such       >>>>>>>>>>> dynamic suggest there is an ontic #22 - jié (結):       >>>>>>>>>>> *FORMATIONAL* (circumscribed as bounding) #135 - níng (凝):       >>>>>>>>>>> *CONGEALING* / [#56, #79] concept of facilitated arbitration       >>>>>>>>>>> as #174 - CYBERNETIC SYSTEMIC / ANTHROPOMORPHIC PRINCIPLE       >>>>>>>>>>> which when disordered possesses an attenuated #152 / #174 -       >>>>>>>>>>> yí (疑): *DEFICIENCY* / [#29, #61, #62, #22] that may in a       >>>>>>>>>>> chronic ontological state be regarded as either delinquency       >>>>>>>>>>> or reprobation?"       >>>>>>>>>>>       >>>>>>>>       >>>>>>>>       >>>>>>>> CAN REFUSAL OF COMMUNION BY IRISH CATHOLIC ARCHBISHOP PELL ON       >>>>>>>> BOER WAR MEMORIAL DAY / PENTECOST SUNDAY 31 MAY 1998 BE BROUGHT       >>>>>>>> BEFORE THE INTERNATIONAL CRIMINAL COURT?       >>>>>>>>       >>>>>>>> Instances of the most serious international crimes, such as war       >>>>>>>> crimes, crimes of aggression, genocide and crime against       >>>>>>>> humanity (eg: RECLAIM THE #1827 - EUCHARIST / PENTECOST FROM               >>>>>>>> - SWASTIKA OBSTRUCTION / BABYLONIAN [#314 - mágos (G3097):       >>>>>>>> *WISE* *MEN* / #335 - Kasday (H3779): CHALDEAN / #87 -       >>>>>>>> BABYLONIAN KING (circa 721 BC) as [#2 - FULL CIRCLE (周), #30 -       >>>>>>>> BOLD RESOLUTION (毅), #1 - CENTRE (中), #4 - BARRIER (閑), #50 -       >>>>>>>> VASTNESS / WASTING (唐)] being ANTI- STATISM ARTIFICE as       >>>>>>>> UNCONSTITUTIONAL: SECTION II: UNALIENABLE RIGHTS TRANSFERENCE       >>>>>>>> PROTOCOL ] PERSECUTION OF JEWISH - CHRISTIANS AS SUBSTANTIATED       >>>>>>>> CLAIM TO BELIEF #100 + 40 AM as 3860 BCE + 20 x (293 x 365.2423       >>>>>>>> TROPICAL YEARS | 294 x 364 | 6J) + 1 (NO 0 CE) = 2001 CE (NEW              [continued in next message]              --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05        * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)    |
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